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Posts by blondie
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Help! Need these books...
by TheApostleAK ini desperately need these books:.
1. babylon the great has fallen.
2. your word is a lamp to my foot.
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The future of the watchtower...
by TheApostleAK inmultiple choice:.
what is the future of the watchtower??.
1. reform.
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blondie
Maybe a change like what happened in the Worldwide Church of God after Herbert Armstrong died. In their own words:
http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/history.htm
Chapter Two: A Decade of Painful Change
Much of our doctrinal foundation was faulty. And yet part of it was true. Some of our members came from other denominations, but others were unchurched people who had little previous exposure to Christianity. Many people came to Christ in the Worldwide Church of God, accepted his death for their sins, and trusted in him for salvation. Many lives were transformed from sin and selfishness, to service and humility. A germ of life continued inside the crust of erroneous doctrines.
After Herbert Armstrong died, that germ of life slowly began to grow, breaking off the crust that had once limited it. It took many years --- and many tears. Here's the story:
Joseph Tkach Sr.
In 1986, shortly before he died, Herbert Armstrong appointed Joseph Tkach (pronounced Ta-cotch) to be his successor. Tkach had been a loyalist who supervised all the ministers. He was more an administrator than the magnetic personality that Armstrong had been. Tkach assigned other people to present the television program and write the articles.
The church continued to grow slowly. In 1988, Tkach made minor doctrinal changes. He taught members that it was permissible to go to doctors, take medicines, observe birthdays and wear cosmetics. He realized that many of the prophetic speculations that had made the television program and magazine so interesting couldn't actually be proven from Scripture.
Questions also arose about some of the things that Armstrong had written, and some of his books were withdrawn from circulation until further study could resolve the questions. Some members were troubled that the church was no longer teaching the same things that Armstrong had, and in 1989, 3,000 members left to form the Philadelphia Church of God to preserve Armstrong doctrines.
In 1990, the church peaked at 133,000 in weekly attendance. More doctrinal changes were made as Tkach realized that some of Armstrong's unusual beliefs, though sincere, were not biblical. The focus of the gospel is Jesus Christ and grace, not prophecy or the millennium. Budgetary reductions began to affect the television broadcast. More Armstrong literature was discontinued and/or edited.
In 1991, Tkach revised the church's explanation of what it means to be born again, noting also that humans will never become Gods. He also announced a study about the modern identity of the lost ten tribes, and accepted the divinity of the Holy Spirit. Membership, attendance, and income began to decrease slowly.
In 1992, income continued to decrease, and a prominent minister and 3,000 members left to form the Global Church of God.
In 1993, the church accepted the doctrine of the Trinity. The church declared that the cross was not a pagan symbol, that it is not a sin to have illustrations of Jesus, and that Christians may vote. Such changes may seem inconsequential to most Christians, but each change was significant for WCG members because each change attacked strongly held beliefs about how we ought to express our devotion to God. Each change had to be explained from the Scriptures and had to explain how previous explanations were not correct.
In 1994, the television program was cancelled and employees were laid off. The church also explained to the members that true Christians can be found in other denominations.
But perhaps the most traumatic change came in December 1994: Tkach announced that Christians do not have to keep old covenant laws such as the weekly and annual Sabbaths, two and three tithes, and avoid pork, shrimp and other meats. In many ways, the Sabbath had been the foundational doctrine of the entire denomination, so this was the biggest change of all. (Click here for the text of the sermon Tkach used to announce these changes, and click here to see a menu of papers analyzing these doctrines.)
Many members did not accept these changes. After decades of understanding their identity as Christians in terms of Sabbath-keeping, and after making many sacrifices in order to keep the Sabbath, they could not easily accept the idea that it really didn't matter.
In early 1995, hundreds of ministers and 12,000 members left to form the United Church of God. Thousands more stopped attending any church, and many congregations were left with only half the members they used to have. Church income dropped another 50 percent, and hundreds of employees were laid off. Friends and families were split. It was a time of anguish and depression.
Something unexpected also happened: Many members, after struggling to understand the doctrinal change, began to experience a new sense of peace and joy through a renewed faith in Jesus Christ. Their identity was in him, not in the particular laws they kept.
The Sabbath doctrine was changed in order to be more biblical; the result was that members became more spiritual. Members focused more their relationship with Jesus Christ; they also had an increased interest in worship. Organizationally, this doctrinal change had catastrophic results. But spiritually, it was the best thing that ever happened to the WCG.
Another major change also occurred in 1995: Joseph Tkach Sr. died after a brief battle with cancer. He designated his son, Joe, as his successor, and the board of directors honored this appointment.
A few additional doctrines were changed later in 1995: The church officially rejected the doctrine that the Anglo-Saxons descended from the tribes of Israel, and the church permitted the observance of holidays such as Christmas and Easter.
Joseph Tkach Jr.
It was a tumultuous decade. Now, the Worldwide Church of God is about half the size it used to be. The television ministry, once one of the largest in America, is gone. Circulation of The Plain Truth fell from a peak of 8,000,000 down to less than 100,000. The number of employees in Pasadena fell from 1,000 to about 150. Even some pastors were terminated, and lay pastors have been appointed for small congregations.
The church's properties in Pasadena are greatly underutilized and up for sale. Ambassador College/University was forced to close because the church could no longer subsidize it, and its properties have been sold. An era of change is coming to an end.
Evangelical churches have also re-evaluated their stance toward the WCG. One of the first friendly groups was the Haggard School of Theology at Azusa Pacific University. Fuller Theological Seminary also helped. Cult-watching groups such as the Christian Research Institute complimented the church when it accepted the doctrine of the Trinity. In 1995, more evangelicals embraced us as brothers in the faith. We cite the International Church of the Four Square Gospel in particular. We are grateful for these gestures of reconciliation.
In March 1996, Joe Tkach wrote an editorial in The Plain Truth [click here for article] apologizing to members and all who have been hurt by the church's erroneous teachings and practices. He asked for forgiveness and cooperation. In July 1996, Christianity Today published a long article on the Worldwide Church of God --- "From the Fringe to the Fold," by Ruth Tucker (pp. 26-32) [click here for article]. And in 1997, the church was accepted as a member of the National Association of Evangelicals. [click here for press release]
(Well, maybe not)
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"Freeness of Speech" Between Elders
by blondie inwhat does it mean to have "freeness of speech" between elders on the elder body?
can they ask another elder on the body anything about his personal life and/or questions they would never dare to ask one of the rank and file?
can't find much about it in the publications.
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blondie
Thanks Nicodemus. I know what the publications and the Bible say should happen...I was wondering what really happens more of the time. I was told that elders within and between congregations could discuss judicial cases as long as names were not mentioned. But...if you use enough details who needs the names. So the letter of the law is met but the spirit is broken.
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"Freeness of Speech" Between Elders
by blondie inwhat does it mean to have "freeness of speech" between elders on the elder body?
can they ask another elder on the body anything about his personal life and/or questions they would never dare to ask one of the rank and file?
can't find much about it in the publications.
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blondie
Thanks HCM. It's too bad about the evil treatment. Reminds me more of how the apostles treated each other before the holy spirit was poured out than after. Of course, Barnabas--Paul and Paul--Peter proves that confrontations did occur after the HS. It is scary if the elders will tear each other apart, what hope does a lowly r&f and a sister at that have.
Thanks ozziepost. I knew that about analyzing the elders and MS. I just didn't realize how nasty it could get. I wonder if anyone could stand up to such unfounded scrutiny, not even Jesus. The Pharisees and scribes did a number on him too. Sounds like I am comparing the elder body to the Pharisees....hmmm...
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"Freeness of Speech" Between Elders
by blondie inwhat does it mean to have "freeness of speech" between elders on the elder body?
can they ask another elder on the body anything about his personal life and/or questions they would never dare to ask one of the rank and file?
can't find much about it in the publications.
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blondie
HoChiMin, did you experience this? Sounds very unloving and coercive. Does proof have to be provided by the accusing elder(s) or can just wild accusations be flung around? I'm glad I'll never be an elder if that is the case. At least there is the formalism of having 2 or 3 eyewitnesses for the r&f. Thanks and hello.
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"Freeness of Speech" Between Elders
by blondie inwhat does it mean to have "freeness of speech" between elders on the elder body?
can they ask another elder on the body anything about his personal life and/or questions they would never dare to ask one of the rank and file?
can't find much about it in the publications.
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blondie
No, Yerusalyim, I am neither. Only someone who is or has been an elder might know the details. I was given the impression that it ends up being like OrangeBlossom said, a license to gossip about others in the congregation and to ask questions of the individual elders about their and their family's personal lives that they could never ask someone outside the body. All this in front of the other elders. Sounds like an inquisition to me.
I appreciate your comments and hello.
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"Freeness of Speech" Between Elders
by blondie inwhat does it mean to have "freeness of speech" between elders on the elder body?
can they ask another elder on the body anything about his personal life and/or questions they would never dare to ask one of the rank and file?
can't find much about it in the publications.
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blondie
Does anyone know about this? Thanks
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"Freeness of Speech" Between Elders
by blondie inwhat does it mean to have "freeness of speech" between elders on the elder body?
can they ask another elder on the body anything about his personal life and/or questions they would never dare to ask one of the rank and file?
can't find much about it in the publications.
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blondie
What does it mean to have "freeness of speech" between elders on the elder body? Can they ask another elder on the body anything about his personal life and/or questions they would never dare to ask one of the rank and file? Can't find much about it in the publications. Thanks in advance.
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When Reinstated...NO APPLAUSE!
by Disengaged inthe other evening a young person was reinstated and the jerk-water elder making the announcement went out of his way to remind "the friends" that applauding would not be proper.
what mind control, bunk, dribble, bull................ they are so loving aren't they?
i shoulda applauded anyway.
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blondie
Philo and Gopher...Haha...I finally got it! That subtle humor usually goes waaaay over my head.:)
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When Reinstated...NO APPLAUSE!
by Disengaged inthe other evening a young person was reinstated and the jerk-water elder making the announcement went out of his way to remind "the friends" that applauding would not be proper.
what mind control, bunk, dribble, bull................ they are so loving aren't they?
i shoulda applauded anyway.
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blondie
When they had a party for the prodigal son, who was it that thought it wasn't proper? Hmmm?