Posts by blondie

12

Update/Change In OD Coming Soon

by mr_doubtful in

there will be an update/change in the od book coming soon.

i have it on good word that this change in the od book has already been pushed out & notified to the “higher ups”.

newwww light!.

blondie

Don't you have to have that app for it to work?

12

FOOD FOR THOUGHT November 3, 2019 WT Study Article (September 2019) JAH VALUES HUMBLE SERVANTS

by blondie in

jw
friends

blondie’s food for thought, 11/03/2019 wt study article, jah values humble servants, september 2019. https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-september-2019/jehovah-values-his-humble-servants/.

opening comments/food for thought.

i first asked myself, why does the wts sometimes use the word “servant” then “slave”?

blondie

BLONDIE’S FOOD FOR THOUGHT, 11/03/2019 WT STUDY ARTICLE, JAH VALUES HUMBLE SERVANTS, SEPTEMBER 2019

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-september-2019/jehovah-values-his-humble-servants/

Opening Comments/Food For Thought

I first asked myself, why does the WTS sometimes use the word “servant” then “slave”? Are we led to assume that servant = slave? Is a servant the same as a slave? Servants are employees of a person with set duties, set work hours, and paid a wage. Slaves are owned by the person, must do what they are asked to do with no set schedule and are not paid, except for a place to live, food to eat. Servants after serving the period of time agreed upon between them and the employer, can leave. Slaves cannot, except in the case of Israel, where it was a specific period of time, 7 years or at the Jubilee.

Now I know that there is probably the possibility of a detailed discussion of the Greek and Hebrew words and their meanings. But what does the average jw think when they see the words, servant or slave?

Can you think of ways neither the WTS or its members, especially those in appointed positions, are not humble based on their actions and words?

Paragraph 1

Notice the WTS does not just say “relationship” but “warm, personal relationship.” Does that mean you can have a lukewarm, impersonal relationship with god?

Who are the haughty? Jws who do not completely support the WTS/GB in everything, even when it is clear it is not scriptural or the WTS doesn’t even use a scripture that clearly talks about their point? Or do they use words like, “apparently” or “likely,” to couch their statements?

Paragraph 2

Are individual jws allowed only to test their humility or are there appointed and self-appointed jws that do it for you, and tell others behind your back and rarely to your face?

Paragraph 3

Are elders humble when apply to themselves what the bible seems to say that they are due “double honor” just for holding the position of elder? If you are or were an elder, what was said at the BOE meetings as to what that meant? What were elders doing that would make them worthy of that label? How does that make them humble, acknowledging as the WTS says “everyone is superior to him in some way”?

it-2 pp. 782-783

They were “worthy of double honor,” including voluntary material assistance for their hard work in behalf of the congregation.

Paragraph 4

Did/do you know people who only tried to appear humble in public. Or some only because their culture/upbringing taught them to be that way in public. (I wonder what cultures they were thinking about, certainly not the US). “Deep down they are may actually be very prideful…reveal what they truly are at heart.” Based on the statement, that elders are worthy of double honor, do you think that the WTS is thinking about rank and file members? Sounds like the elders are doing what the WTS is “suggesting” they do or putting on an act.

Paragraph 5

“Confident…forthright…not necessarily proud.” Who judges which jws are like that? Are these characteristics of “outgoing personalities” or is that a euphemism for bossy, abusive people? At the same time the WTS cautions “must be careful not to rely on their natural ability.” Again, I think they are addressing elders about this. Yes, no one no matter their abilities or privileges can disregard the WTS/GB “loving” counsel.

Paragraph 6

Example, Paul: Used mightily (meaning publicly, many privileges, wrote many letters eventually put in the bible, visiting many congregations, accomplished more in the ministry, etc.) Do you know jws who point to their special privileges, number of hours in the ministry, and so on as proof that they have more value to god? Yes, Paul said he was “the least of the apostles” did he mean one of the 12 apostles selected by Jesus, including Matthias who was selected afterwards to replace Judas, by casting lots (like dice)? So how was he the least of the apostles, if he wasn’t one of the 12?

So, weren’t other elders in the congregation that wanted to prove themselves superior to Paul, not the rank and file members?

Or was it the “superfine apostles” mentioned in 2 Corinthians 11:5?

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1971368?q=paul+apostle+twelve&p=par

● Was the apostle Paul one of the twelve apostles?

The evidence reveals that, while Paul was an apostle of Jesus Christ, he is not presented by the Bible as one of the “twelve apostles.”

Paragraph 7

Jehovah’s people—just substitute “only jws”

So recently the WTS said that those self-reported anointed jws, should not introduce themselves as “anointed,” and I thought does that mean that other jws should identify them as anointed and special to other jws? Why was he allowed to go 2 years without going out talking to others about the kingdom without any seeming repercussions? How long did he harbor resentment because of receiving counsel, how did he receive new counsel after “harboring” resentment? So why should it be hard for a “well-known” brother to admit his “weaknesses”? Did you know of elders (perhaps you) who “freely” admitted “weaknesses” or making mistakes? I never did. Perhaps elders only admit them to other elders.

I wonder how many elders applied this counsel from the WTS/GB?

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1993847?q=admit+mistakes+elder&p=par#h=22

An elder may be reluctant to admit a mistake because he fears that this will undermine his authority in the congregation. However, trying to justify, ignore, or minimize a mistake is much more likely to cause others to lose confidence in his oversight.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/201982444?q=admit+mistakes+elders&p=par

Talk on subject “Why Admit It When You Are Wrong?” from September 1, 1982, Watchtower. Elders and publishers alike need to acknowledge their own mistakes with humility and honesty, not taking themselves too seriously. This can work for the upbuilding of all.

Paragraph 8

Who wrote the book, “Come Be My Follower”? It is a WT publication. Why no reference to that in the publication? So, the WTS is supporting their WT article with another publication with the opinion in it.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/Come-Be-My-Follower/

Paragraph 9

So, if you don’t have many people who talk to you or are your “friend,” does that mean you aren’t humble enough? Does that mean you “insist on your own way and refuse to accept suggestions”? The first BOE meeting a new elder attended, the COBOE said that in his congregation “it was his way or the highway.” Wow! Where is the “fellow feeling, brotherly affection, tender compassion, and humility” in that statement, and that was to the other elders!

Paragraph 10

“We may observe things that do not SEEM to be right or fair.” Why combine what is right with what is fair? Is what is right always what is fair.” So, do the “princes” in your congregation walk as the servants do? Is recognition more important than having abilities? Is that why men who know nothing about construction can be put in charge of trained construction workers? Does that mean that man is given more recognition than the people who actually did the work? So, should jws face the reality of serious wrongdoing by other members and “wait on Jehovah” to correct things? Should the “accept life as it is, not as we think it should be”?

Paragraph 11

“When we receive counsel” does that mean that the elders are giving us counsel because they really “care” about the person? Who tends to “reject” counsel more often, elders who feel that their authority cannot be questioned, even when they are wrong? Why can only other elders “correct” and elder when he is wrong? Do elders correct other elders when a rank and file member points out that that elder is wrong?

Paragraph 12

Should we “appreciate” counsel about things that we know we didn’t do, can prove it? I did that once and the elder said, “well, maybe you didn’t do it this time, but how do I know you haven’t done it, and no one found out?”

So, counsel by the elders can be compared to pointing out someone has food on their teeth? Why not some poor woman seeing a brother has not zipped his pants zipper. Who is brave enough to point that out?

Paragraph 13

“When others receive ‘privileges of service’” Who coined that phrase? It makes it seem like those who are not given those by imperfect men, those people are not valued. Why is it that some men in the congregation who don’t have these POS for years, move to another congregation and suddenly are being used for everything, MS then quickly elder, giving public talks every month, appointed to school servant, conducting a book study, all within month? Did he suddenly develop the qualities he had not had at the other congregation in one month?

Paragraph 14

So, Moses had left his brother Aaron in charge when he went up to the mountain and what happened? The Israelites were frightened by the mountain shaking and smoking, and Aaron let them make a golden calf and worship it. Aaron managed not to be killed like the other Israelites. Why? If Moses could not trust his own brother to handle things, why should he think he could trust others?

Paragraph 15

“When we face new circumstances” Change of assignment—a euphemism for “being kicked to the curb” after many years of “faithful” service at Bethel, the branches, as a missionary, a special pioneer, a circuit or district overseer 70 or over, or an elder over 80 as being a COBOE? These were not “because of health problems, family circumstances or other personal circumstances” but the arbitrary decision of the WTS/GB because the WTS/GB is having financial troubles.

Paragraph 16

Adjustments—like suddenly having to support themselves after years of not paying into social security or similar retirement plans, because of the vow of poverty they made required by the WTS administration. Now in order to qualify in the US, these people must work FT for 4 years and accumulate 40 points to receive social security. Many jw family members have died or in no financial situation to help. Will their last congregation (not their assigned Bethel one) help them out, do they remember them, will they want to support some stranger?

Are they grieving leaving their friends, or returning to an unknown financial situation after years of living a frugal life? How many times has the WTS/GB in the past venerated Bethelites that served their whole adult lives to Bethel? How should they expect their God to support them in “practical” ways if not through the other jws they know?

Paragraph 17

So are the GB cultivating humility, if they are autographing the bibles of adoring jws, or the ones who want to have a jw selfie, with a GB member, or the jws that describe them first as of the anointed, as if that is more special than an older woman in their congregation who has done more in the preaching work than that GB could even imagine doing?

CONCLUDING FINAL FOOD FOR THOUGHT

I found in every congregation, that the really humble people were those who did not judge others and whether they had value to their god or to the congregation. When I was still believing, I felt that the only thing that mattered is what god thought about me and I could be confident that he saw the real me and what I really thought and felt. Not something humans can do even in the official opinion of the WTS. Even they in print say that only their god and Jesus could read hearts and minds.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2017643#h=26:0-28:0 (paragraph 17)

Unlike Jehovah and Jesus, elders cannot read hearts.

So, knowing this, no one else can determine what our real value is to Jesus and his father.

Now that I have this out of my system, let me know what your thoughts when you read this article or had to sit through the not-so honest answers at the meeting.

Love, Blondie

30

Do You Think Jehovah’s Witnesses Are A Threat To Any Government?

by minimus in

jw
friends

russia believes they are a threat.

the usa has put witnesses in jail in the past.

other countries look at jws as a nuisance.. do you think the witnesses are a threat to governments?

blondie

I did say this:

"are going after jws and other groups that do not support the government." I could amend it to "seem" not to support

Mormons, Muslims, Baptists, and other groups are under the same siege. During WW2 and other wars, even in countries like Australia, the US, the UK, etc., the WTS was targeted aggressively.

So the WTS cannot claim to be special.

12

JW's ransom sacrifice DOGMA

by The Fall Guy in

it-2 p. 735 ransom - “the real ransom (a) sacrifice.....would have to correspond (b) to the perfect adam......and enslavement into which their first father adam had sold them.

only thereby could he satisfy god’s perfect justice (c) that requires like for like...(d)’”.

a) can a ransom redeem something which wasn't lost – i.e.

blondie

Once again, thanks everyone for putting this in a form that was easy for me to see, perhaps even a couple of aha moments for me.

12

JW's ransom sacrifice DOGMA

by The Fall Guy in

it-2 p. 735 ransom - “the real ransom (a) sacrifice.....would have to correspond (b) to the perfect adam......and enslavement into which their first father adam had sold them.

only thereby could he satisfy god’s perfect justice (c) that requires like for like...(d)’”.

a) can a ransom redeem something which wasn't lost – i.e.

blondie

Thanks, btlc

19

What was your favorite video game?

by LoveUniHateExams in

i've never been that big on video/computer games but i used to have a ps2 and my absolute fav game was star wars battlefront ii, released by pandemic in 2005.. you could choose to play as three different classes of soldier and fight for the rebels, the imperials, the republic or the battle droids.

as you played and gained points by killing the enemy, you could unlock a fourth and fifth class of soldier.

you could also play as a hero or villain - such as darth vader, luke skywalker, princess leia, etc.. there was something absolutely awesome playing as darth vader and cutting down or force-choking rebel soldiers on the tantive iv.. .

blondie

I have never played what I consider video games. I have played games on sites like Pogo and MSN games. Usually like Boggle, Trivial Pursuit, Scrabble, Dominoes, Bingo, Yahtzee, well you get the picture.

I sometimes play against other players and some times against the computer. I don't play on games with impatient players or foul language ones or ones where players hit on me. Otherwise in a safe setting, these games keep my mind as I get older and a little clean conversation with other players.

I try to find player groups at the same level where we are challenged to do better.

30

Do You Think Jehovah’s Witnesses Are A Threat To Any Government?

by minimus in

jw
friends

russia believes they are a threat.

the usa has put witnesses in jail in the past.

other countries look at jws as a nuisance.. do you think the witnesses are a threat to governments?

blondie

Well, they do say that Satan is ruler of these governments, that those governments are going to be destroyed soon by god. That following these governments will make individuals subject to eternal destruction when these governments are destroyed.

I think that might be part of why Russian and other totalitarian governments are going after jws and other groups that do not support the government.

But the WTS hide that ideas in the first paragraph from many governments not familiar with the sneaky ways of the WTS.

12

Update/Change In OD Coming Soon

by mr_doubtful in

there will be an update/change in the od book coming soon.

i have it on good word that this change in the od book has already been pushed out & notified to the “higher ups”.

newwww light!.

blondie

I'll wait until real confirmation, perhaps through a current elder or Atlantis.

23

U.S. Supreme Court Rejects Appeal by Jehovah’s Witnesses

by annihilator in

u.s. supreme court rejects appeal by jehovah’s witnesses of 2015 california trial court ordersan diego, ca, october 24, 2019 --(pr.com)-- on october 7, 2019, the u.s. supreme court rejected the petition for writ of certiorari filed by the watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. (“watchtower”), requesting that the supreme court review a case filed by the zalkin law firm in 2013. in the case of jw v. watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. et.

al., the riverside superior court of california awarded the plaintiff, “j.w.,” a judgment of $4,016,152.39 plus interest at 10% per year after terminating watchtower’s defense, because it refused to obey the court’s order to produce files of known child molesters within the jw organization.

in 2018, the fourth district court of appeal in california upheld that decision.

blondie

smiddy3,

Up until 1929, the WTS did teach that the secular governments were the superior authorities. Then they changed it to "Jehovah and Jesus." Then in 1962, the went back to secular governments, adding that it is only "relative" subjection. If read the WT pubs before 1929, you will find that nothing changed as to what Bible Students should do or not do. The WTS disobeyed many edicts from the governments before 1929.

The WTS gives a dance around in 1962, even though the WTS was teaching something that was not true according to the scriptures before that saying, it did serve to be a protection for Bible Students (changed to jws in 1931 for members that had stayed with Rutherford's version of the WTS), so they did not do the things required by the secular governments. Many WT members ended up in prison, concentration camps, tarred and feathered (kills you BTW or seriously scars you), etc. But none of the leaders in NY suffered any of that.

12

JW's ransom sacrifice DOGMA

by The Fall Guy in

it-2 p. 735 ransom - “the real ransom (a) sacrifice.....would have to correspond (b) to the perfect adam......and enslavement into which their first father adam had sold them.

only thereby could he satisfy god’s perfect justice (c) that requires like for like...(d)’”.

a) can a ransom redeem something which wasn't lost – i.e.

blondie

I was thinking about this as I was re-reading a coming up WT study article.

Fall Guy's premise and supporting premises

a) Can a ransom redeem something which wasn't lost – i.e. 144,000 humans becoming superhuman king/priests?

b) The scenario in No. 1 could never be called a “corresponding” ransom.

c) This blatant imbalance could never be called “perfect justice.”

d) “Like for like.” Explain how this makes any sense of No. 1?

The WTS like to say Jesus was a perfect man like Adam, but was he, he had know god for millions of years, a great deal of that time as the only other being. Jesus had magic powers and firsthand knowledge that Adam did not have.

Waton

I have heard of that about the tree of life. But was that tree obviously different from the other trees? Had god already identified that specific tree; nothing in Genesis seems to say that. The tree of the knowledge of good and bad had been identified to Adam and Eve (maybe indirectly by Adam to Eve).

But did Adam and Eve suddenly know the difference between good and bad when they ate from that tree? If they didn't how what was good and what was bad, could they understand that eating from that tree was bad?

Of course, if the whole story is an allegory, does it have to make sense? Does a talking snake make sense to perfect people when even imperfect can understand that is ludricous?

Half Banana

Yes, human sacrifice...we can even think back to the story of Abraham being told to sacrifice his son. Maybe god knew he was not going to let Abraham go through with literally sacrificing his son, but Abraham didn't, Abraham was willing to actually kill his son because god told him to do it. If you think about it, Jesus literally died and god allowed it, even planned it. So evidently, god did approve of human sacrifice.

btlc,

btlc, there are 581 pages, do you know what page it is on? I am going to read that and come back and amend this; I want to see the specifics for their disagreement.

dubstepped,

1) Two imperfect people sinned yet one coming from his sky daddy could fix it all and somehow balance the scales of justice? Is this just because women don't count?

I'm sure the WTS would say as the head of his "household," Adam was responsible for what his family members did, especially since Adam knew Eve had eaten, did not say that it was wrong, but instead he and his wife hid from god (ludicrous if you think about it), and then Eve blamed the snake and Adam blamed his wife. Neither was repentant, but Adam would be ultimately responsible.

2) And what did it really prove? Jesus wasn't some ordinary human. He had magic powers and Adam nor Eve had those. He had a prehuman existence and relationship with god.

I wondered about that too, how was Jesus like god. He had known god personally for years, as the only other being alive. Then later the angels came, and Jesus was appointed over them.

3) still asked why his father had forsaken him while going through this, not the bastion of strength one expected,

But then the WTS has an excuse for Jesus regarding this. He had always been with god and had his support for millions of years; this was the first time he was completely disconnected from god (crap as usually)

Very excellent points by everyone. Not that hard to see when reading Genesis. By the time I got to the end of reading Genesis, I had so many questions and observations of the confusing and conflicting statements, it took me some time to look up the WTS explanations. They were all what I called dance arounds or work arounds. This is true (without proof) so this is true (what?!). If you don't understand, then faith will be necessary. What!?