i was wondering if you could prove with "original" independent documents that rutherford was an alcoholic.... .
i read penton, but since he is a former jw he could not be considered an independent source.... .
A copy of the publication by Rutherford about prohibition.
https://www.druglibrary.net/schaffer/History/e1920/rutherford1.htm
Rutherford used the 1929 position on higher authorities to justify:
https://www.scribd.com/document/554990806/1930-Prohibition-League-of-Nations
armagedon in 1914 rutherford 1925 1940's the fascist catholic take over franz 1975 and 2000 the 1914 generation will not die.
now the generation that new the generation....this must break a world record of false prophecies in any religion..
I would find it amazing if any ex-jw would be that savvy with how many false statements any religion has made. That would have to be a scholarly document that covers at least as far back as 1879 the timeframe for the start of the WTS. I have found lists online which I might find and put here. There have been much larger religions (Christian) that have mislead more people. Also, it is subject to interpretation what is "false" depending on the researcher. I was always fascinated by the Worldwide Church of God headed up by Herbert Armstrong. In recent years there has been at least one split and a change in doctrine in the new one. I heard jws in the past compare the WT to their magazines, as closest to the WTS!!!
blondie's "highlights" from the may 2024 study wt paragraphs 11-17 part 2. may 2024 study article comments #2. what we do know.
paragraph #11. what basis will people be judged at armageddon….
a) “people will be dealt with on the basis how they have treated christ’s brothers” (but those know that christ’s brothers are only jws who believe they will go to heaven?).
MAY 2024 STUDY ARTICLE COMMENTS #2
WHAT WE DO KNOW
Paragraph #11
What basis will people be judged at Armageddon…
A) “People will be dealt with on the basis how they have treated Christ’s brothers” (but those know that Christ’s brothers are only jws who believe they will go to heaven?)
B) “We also know that some of Christ’s brothers will still be on the earth after the great tribulation starts”
C) “and will not be taken to heaven until shortly before the outbreak of heaven”
(That brings to mind the WTS once taught that some of the “anointed” would still be on earth AFTER Armageddon, but when does the “marriage of the Bride of Christ and Jesus take place so that all of the anointed are all in heaven? All the anointed will have to be heaven then; will the younger “anointed” have to be taken before natural death to be there for the wedding? Or will they miss the wedding? Haha)
So the WTS “reasons” “As long as the brothers of Christ are still on earth, IT IS POSSIBLE that honest-hearted individuals will have the opportunity to support them and the work they are doing…Why are those FACTS significant?
Paragraph #12
“Even after the great tribulation starts, IT IS POSSIBLE that some who see the destruction of “Babylon the Great” will recall that Jehovah’s Witnesses had long spoken of this event. MIGHT some who see these events have a change of heart?
(In the past the WTS has said that those who survive must have the “mark” and that is baptism. Will those people be baptized? ‘The act of baptism is a vital part of “the mark” that identifies you for salvation.—Ezekiel 9:4-6.’
Paragraph #13
“Would be similar to what occurred in Egypt…’a vast mixed company’ joined Israel in the Exodus.” Some MAY HAVE started to develop faith…IF a similar development should occur following the destruction of Babylon the Great” “ (but would there be time for baptism?)
Paragraphs #14-15
“At times, we hear someone (a jw) say, ‘It would be better if my relative (or friend?) dies before the great tribulation begins so there is hope for his (her) resurrection…a person’s eternal future does not depend on when (WTS BOLD) he happens to die” (for years the WTS has talked about a judgment period during which if people died, they would not be resurrected but eternal destruction, comparing it to those who died during the flood. They compared the shutting of the ark’s door as the end. Now the WTS is trying to “clarify” that teaching. But now from the great tribulation to Armageddon, people can still be “saved”!)
Paragraph #15
“IT IS ALSO REASONABLE TO CONCLUDE (but the bible does not say) that a person’s eternal future does not depend on where he happens to live.” (The WTS in the past used their concept of “community responsibility” to say that individuals guilty although not hearing the WT message). Now they tell their members “It is unthinkable that Jehovah would automatically as “goats” millions of people who live in lands where they never had an opportunity to respond to the Kingdom message.” (But not unthinkable for the WTS to teach that in the past). “We do not know how Jehovah will maneuver events during the great tribulation. PERHAPS some of this will have…(The WTS has taught that jws after the great tribulation would preach a “warning” message to non-jws not with the goal of having them become jws though.)
Paragraph #16
“Through our study of the Bible (as explained by the WTS and clarified later as this article does)
Paragraph #17
“These clarifications actually make our preaching work more urgent than ever…what motivates to keeping preaching”?? What do you think?
(So the WTS is trying to change many long-held beliefs, to appear more loving to non-jws, to get jws to drop those ideas that make the WTS look bad to outsiders, to help them win court cases? I can only speculate)
FINAL CLOSING COMMENTS
Many of these clarified points, have been covered many times on JWN, by me and others, and now the WTS is up to speed. Where was the holy spirit for them, why does it seem that we knew ahead of time?
COMMUNITY RESPONSIBILITY
· 1952 COMMUNITY RESPONSIBILITY
...
In addition to family responsibility the Bible shows a communal or community responsibility, where a community upholds or goes along with rulers that persecute Jehovah’s people or are otherwise wicked.
i have not read a wt for many years, but a comment on jwn prompted me to check out this one study article #19. i was stunned, they addressed many observations i have made in the "comments you will not hear" over the years.
this segment will contain comments on the section called what we do not know paragraphs 1 through 10. i will post what we do know” in another original post covering paragraphs 11 through 17”.
1) definition of "king of the south" and "king of the north.
I am posting part 2, today, June 27, 2024 on a separate original post.
i have not read a wt for many years, but a comment on jwn prompted me to check out this one study article #19. i was stunned, they addressed many observations i have made in the "comments you will not hear" over the years.
this segment will contain comments on the section called what we do not know paragraphs 1 through 10. i will post what we do know” in another original post covering paragraphs 11 through 17”.
1) definition of "king of the south" and "king of the north.
I have not read a WT for many years, but a comment on JWN prompted me to check out this one Study Article #19. I was stunned, they addressed many observations I have made in the "Comments You Will Not Hear" over the years. This segment will contain comments on the section called WHAT WE DO NOT KNOW paragraphs 1 through 10. I will post WHAT WE DO KNOW” in another original post covering paragraphs 11 through 17”
1) Definition of "king of the south" and "king of the north." Many will remember how many times the WTS has changed the identity of these 2 entities. But no identification here. Why not? Last defined in May 2020 WT Study Article 20. “ While the identity has changed over time but now:
“Note why we can say that today the king of the north is Russia and its allies. (1) They have had a direct impact on God’s people, banning the preaching work and persecuting hundreds of thousands of brothers and sisters who live in areas under their control. (2) Those actions show that they hate Jehovah and his people. (3) They have been competing with the king of the south, the Anglo-American World Power.”
“unprecedented scale” what the WTS means is by the WTS/jws because they are the “only true religion.”
2) “Jehovah continues to have a clearer understanding of major events that lie ahead.” Why does their god withhold information, a lie of omission. Are jws not entitled to the truth so they can make good life decisions? “There are some things that we just do not know the near future” but that does not stop the WTS saying, “the bible does not say, but”.
“Why we have reconsidered what we have said about some of those events.”
WHAT WE DO NOT KNOW
3) First big change: “In the past, we (through the GB) have said that once the great tribulation begins, no unbelievers (of the WTS teachings) will be able to take their stand for Jehovah and survive Armageddon. We (GB) came to that conclusion because we understood (evidently not from their god) that the account was a prophetic type (a teaching that has fallen by the wayside, a pet teaching of Fred Franz). For example, we (GB) reasoned that just as Jehovah shut the door of the ark prior to the start of the Flood, he would, at the beginning of the great tribulation, “shut the door” on Satan’s system of things, thus preventing any more people from being saved.”
How many of us remember that teaching?
· (What is the “prophetic type” teaching?) (1951: In all this David was a prophetic type of Christ.” But now the WTS uses this teaching less and less).
4) Another big change: “Should we (as defined by the GB) view the account of the Flood as a prophetic type? The answer is no (as defined now by the GB) Why? Because this is not direct Scriptural support for doing so…Jesus did not imply that the Flood was a prophetic type (but the GB did without any ‘direct Scriptural support’ (but the GB felt that indirect support was enough, their “interpretation”? “Nor did he say that the closing of the door of ark had a prophetic significance (but the GB did, “running ahead” of Jesus)
5) Another big change: “Peter called Noah “a preacher of righteousness.’” However, as discussed in the preceding article, we (GB) do not know whether Noah led a preaching campaign to reach everyone living on earth before the Flood…Still, try as we might, we cannot possibly reach everyone on earth with the good news before the end comes (GT or Armageddon?). Why not?
6) Another big change: “Consider what Jesus said…foretold that good news would be preached “in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations. That prophecy is being fulfilled today (is it?).
(Before paragraph 7, consider what the WTS considers “community responsibility, while not individually doing an evil, but others in the community has “Some people have caused human death willfully or through carelessness. Others have taken part in collective killing, perhaps persuaded by religious leaders that this was God’s will. Still others have persecuted and killed servants of God. Even if we have not done such things, though, we share community responsibility for the loss of human life because we did not know God’s law and will. We are like the unintentional manslayer ‘who killed his fellowman without knowing it and who did not hate him formerly.’ Such individuals ought to implore God for mercy and should run into the antitypical city of refuge. Otherwise, they will have a fatal meeting with the Avenger of blood. (WT 1995 November 15, paragraph 5)
7) However, Jesus also told his disciples that they would not “complete the circuit of the cities,” or preach to everyone, before he would come. (a point I have made many times before why?) GB comments: a) Millions of people today live in areas where preaching is severely restricted. b) In addition, hundreds of babies are born every minute. We do our best to reach people from “every nation and tribe and tongue” with the good news c) But the fact is that we will not be able to share the good news with each individual on earth before the end comes.
· (Compare to this from 2010 WT 9/15 paragraph 12) (12. Of what may we be certain?
12 We recognize that the end could come at any time; Jehovah’s timing is not contingent on our giving a personal witness to every individual on the planet. (Matt. 10:23)
8) Next big change: “What about those who may not have a chance to hear the good news before the great tribulation strikes. How will Jehovah and his Son, whom he has entrusted to do the judging (not jws), deal with them?...”Jehovah does not desire anyone to be destroyed..all to attain to repentance.
“Must acknowledge that Jehovah us has not yet revealed to us (through the GB) what he will do in answer to the question.”
And finally, “We (GB) must acknowledge that Jehovah not yet revealed…not obligated to tell us (GB through) anything about what he has done or will do.” WOW
9) Another big change: The Bible tells us (through the GB) some of things he will do…raises other big questions:
10 Other big changes: a) Will all who die during the events of the great tribulation be destroyed forever with no hope of resurrection? The Scriptures (through GB) make it clear that outright opposers (including mentally diseased jws who leave) who Jehovah and his forces (heavenly only, not jws on earth) at Armageddon will not be resurrected.
b) But what about others, for example who may die from natural causes, from accidents, or at the hand of other humans? (I have brought up this question many times. (Buried in a publication they mentioned jws who were diabetic and could not get insulin. Also, if they did die, it was not by direct execution by “Jehovah and his (heavenly) forces. Thus, no can use the death of a jw during this time as evidence of their eternal destruction.)
(Continued on a future Original Post, WHAT WE DO KNOW, paragraphs 11-17)
what warnings are the cult giving the "sheeple?".
in the study article on page 20 - "are you heeding the warnings?
", jw's are threatened what their fate will be if they don't support the elite, "anointed" jw's, the 33 degree aka, the self-appointed gibbering body - they will be toast very soon:.
Blues Brother, in the past the WTS has "the bible does not say, but" and goes on to give their "best guess." In the past the WTS chastised the rank and file for speculation, this seems like speculation by the WTS administration. Now that secular governments are reading the published statements of the WTS more closely and seeing them as less than truthtellers, they have to "clarify" past statements. How can their members base life decisions on things that are not clear. Is their god deliberately withholding information which seems lie of omission to me. Cracking the whip: 1) not required to report time spent in preaching/teaching 2) Not all destroyed after GT starts. Cuts back the urgency song. I think many jws enjoyed not going to endless, boring meetings during covid, not having those in charge being able to watch their "activity" and judging their faithfulness by that, even though each person's abilities and opportunities are not the same. I wonder if they will survive the dip that happened in 1976 and 1977 (minus growth) this time.
teaching english as a foreign language in asian countries is quite popular for those looking to travel and explore and make some money.
if you have the tefl qualification you're pretty much good to go and don't need a degree.i don't know how lucrative these overseas jobs are but i do know one jw from my congregation in england who decided to move to the caribbean and teach english as a foreign language.
i'm not knocking this individual.
Not surprising about the WTS, they have a "legal" approach to their statements, a lies by the act of omission.
In the Bible, lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person. (Insight book under Lying) (Definition (not found in WT publications, I wonder why?!)Lie of omission:
What is lying by omission? Lying by omission is the deliberate act of leaving out important details so the truth is skewed or misrepresented. It's the counterpart of lying by commission, or using false direct statements)
(acts 9:15, 16) but the lord said to him: “go!
(see acts 11:26).
(acts 5:40) .
Comments in the past by the WTS (reporting not supporting)(see the qualifying words or phrases, evidently, "it would appear")
2015 Evidently such nations are the product of rebellion against Christ’s administration
2015 it would appear that such “nations” are the product of rebellion against his earth-wide dominion.
Revelation book before 2015 (Note that the 2015 WT is not as dogmatic the WTS were in the Revelation book)
The Bible calls these rebels “nations in the four corners of the earth.” This does not mean that mankind will have been divided once again into mutually exclusive national entities. It merely indicates that these will separate themselves from Jehovah’s righteous, loyal ones and manifest the same bad spirit that the nations show today. T
the upcoming governing body update, set to be released on friday this week, will feature a bearded samuel herd.. jwtalk website revealed the leak, so this thread will be used to speculate the content of the update and discuss the actual contents after its release..
So are you saying jws or some wear that badge outwardly? Not sure of the meaning.
the governing body claims to be the ruling part of the 144k jews in revelation.
wt leaders wiped out 4-5 generations of my family, and nearly took me out as well.
i will see this injustice settled however long it takes.
Personal beliefs do NOT equal facts or evidence. (I know some will disagree)
