Verdict on the 2025 convention

by gavindlt in

final thoughts after 15 hours of the 2025 assembly.

after dedicating 15 hours to the 2025 assembly, i walked away with a heavy sense of spiritual emptiness.

the only part that managed to stir anything within me was a single video on day one titled “what does jesus see in you?”—a piece with sentimental appeal, but still surface-level at best.. .

blondie

Quotes from WT about loyalty to organization: https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/trust-governing-body.php An example: During the great tribulation, we may receive instructions that seem strange, impractical, or illogical. Of course, Jehovah will not speak to us personally. He will likely provide direction through his appointed representatives. That will hardly be the time to second-guess the direction or to view it with skepticism, Watchtower 2022 Feb pp.2-7

To obey is better than a sacrifice.—1 Sam. 15:22.

If organizational changes test your loyalty, what should you do? Fully support the organizational changes. During their travels in the wilderness, the Kohathites carried the ark of the covenant before all the people. (Num. 3:29, 31; 10:33; Josh. 3:2-4) What a privilege! However, things changed for them when the Israelites settled in the Promised Land. The Ark no longer needed to be moved regularly. So the Kohathites were assigned other duties. (1 Chron. 6:31-33; 26:1, 24) There is no record that the Kohathites complained or demanded a more prominent role because of their rich heritage. What lesson can we learn? Wholeheartedly support changes that Jehovah’s organization makes, including any that affect your assignment. Find joy in whatever assignment you are given. Remember that your assignment does not reflect your worth as a person. Jehovah values your obedience far more than any assignment. w22.11 23 ¶10-11

35

Reddit thread on convention video urging cutting off contact with Faders

by LongHairGal in

jw
friends

i just read this.

don’t know if anybody here has seen the video.. the intended result of this is to obviously scare ‘faders’ out of the shadows.

now, they are being threatened with loss of association with their loved ones and friends.

blondie

Social rejection, reminds me of the "marking" concept where the elders would give a talk (old service meeting) without naming names about a behavior if seen practiced (dating non-jw), jws can avoid social contact with them. There has been a change recently, that only individuals can mark another individual, not an indirect one by the elders in a meeting. "

Questions From Readers (WT August 2024) p.7

Is the marking described at 2 Thessalonians 3:14 an action taken by the congregation or by individual Christians?

The apostle Paul wrote to the Christians in Thessalonica, saying: “If anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked.” Previously, we said that this was direction to the elders. If someone continued to ignore Bible principles in spite of repeated counsel, the elders might give a warning talk to the congregation. Thereafter, individual publishers would not socialize with the marked one.

However, an adjustment is needed. Paul’s counsel evidently refers to an action that individual Christians should take under certain circumstances. So there is no need for the elders to give a warning talk. Why the change? Consider Paul’s counsel in its context.

Paul noted that some in that congregation were “walking disorderly.” They were disregarding inspired counsel. During a previous visit, he gave this order: “If anyone does not want to work, neither let him eat.” Yet, some were still refusing to work to support themselves, although able to do so. Also, they were meddling in the affairs of others. How were Christians to treat such disorderly ones?—2Thess. 3:6, 10-14.

“Keep this one marked,” said Paul. The Greek word suggests taking special notice of this person. Paul addressed this directive to the whole congregation, not just the elders. (2 Thess. 1:1, 3:6) So individual Christians who might have noticed a fellow Christian disobeying inspired counsel would choose to “stop associating with” the disorderly one.

Did this mean that the person was treated as someone who was removed from the congregation? No, for Paul added: “Continue admonishing him as a brother.” So individual Christians would still associate with the marked one at meetings and in the ministry, but they would choose not to associate with him for social occasions or recreation. Why? “That he may become ashamed,” said Paul. As a result of the marking, the disorderly Christian might become ashamed of his conduct and change his ways.—2 Thess. 3:14, 15.

How might Christians today apply this counsel? First, we would want to make sure that the conduct in question is actually “disorderly,” as Paul described. He was not talking about those who differ from us in matters of conscience or personal preference. And he did not mean those who simply have hurt our feelings. Rather, Paul had in mind specifically those who deliberately chose to disobey clear, God-given counsel.

Today, if we notice a fellow Christian who shows such a disobedient spirit, we will make a personal decision not to associate with him for social occasions or recreation. Since this is a personal decision, we would not discuss it with others outside of our immediate family. And we would still associate with that individual at our meetings and in our ministry. When he corrects his course, we would then resume normal association.

19

What was really going on with Abel? Does anyone find the story of Cain and Abel screwed up.

by liam in

ever wonder about the story of cain and abel?

why did jehovah like abel's sacrifice more than cain's?

maybe there's a subtle reason why jehovah likes animal sacrifices.

blondie

Just goes to show what a fine piece of work Jehovah is . Or as humans have presented him to other humans in print.

26

Is there a new rule regarding disfellowshipped people?

by HOTB in

does anyone have any information about a relaxing of the rules regarding family reaching out to disfellowshipped members?.

i've heard of an elder being openly in touch with a long time disfellowshipped family member.

apparently the term 'compassionate view' had been bandied about.. i can't find anything relating to this.. i'd be interested what the new rule is in when came into play.. hotb .

blondie

Let me add this, from WT August 24 p. 30-31 "Does what we have considered mean that we would completely ignore a person who has been removed from the congregation? Not necessarily. Certainly, we would not socialize with him. But Christians can use their Bible-trained conscience in deciding whether to invite a person who was removed from the congregation—perhaps a relative or someone they were close to previously—to attend a congregation meeting. What if he attends? In the past, we would not greet such a person. Here again, each Christian needs to use his Bible-trained conscience in this matter. Some may feel comfortable with greeting or welcoming the person to the meeting. However, we would not have an extended conversation or socialize with the individual. Help for Those Who Are Removed From the Congregation

35

Reddit thread on convention video urging cutting off contact with Faders

by LongHairGal in

jw
friends

i just read this.

don’t know if anybody here has seen the video.. the intended result of this is to obviously scare ‘faders’ out of the shadows.

now, they are being threatened with loss of association with their loved ones and friends.

blondie

Good question, Jalisco. Family relationships should continue but no spiritual association. Unless there are some health issues, parents don't associate with df'd or da'd adult children with minor children the parents still have a responsibility for their care. Adult children still have responsibilities to help parents with health and/or financial that requires caregiving. As to spouses, a spouse being df'd or da'd does not end the marriage arrangement. Still function as a couple, but not in spiritual matters. I would think that would still apply, I did not get the idea from the August 2024 WT, that there would be social association with df'd jws, but inviting them to the meetings (before only the elders were to make contact with df'd people). So that is a difference. But no going out to eat, or movies. I'll check it more thoroughly, but this is what I got from the info so far. August WT 2024, p. 30-31 "Does what we have considered mean that we would completely ignore a person who has been removed from the congregation? Not necessarily. Certainly, we would not socialize with him. But Christians can use their Bible-trained conscience in deciding whether to invite a person who was removed from the congregation—perhaps a relative or someone they were close to previously—to attend a congregation meeting. What if he attends? In the past, we would not greet such a person. Here again, each Christian needs to use his Bible-trained conscience in this matter. Some may feel comfortable with greeting or welcoming the person to the meeting. However, we would not have an extended conversation or socialize with the individual." Article Help for Those Who Are Removed From the Congregation

26

SDAs Campaigning in my Area

by NotFormer in

not even as active as the jws (whom i have not seen for around a year now), nevertheless i get an occasional leaflet or other publication in my letterbox that seems to be seventh day adventist in origin.. the booklet i received the other day was entitled "national sunday law".

i also had received this book years ago when i had some dealings with the sdas.. from reddit: "national sunday law involves a conspiracy theory which alleges that the united states government is on the verge of enacting a national blue law that would make sunday a day of rest and worship.

the theory depends on the idea that the pope is the antichrist and the mark of the beast is worshipped on sunday.

blondie

The SDA is the WTS’s variant from a branched timeline.

The term "Second Adventist" is a broader term encompassing various groups that share a belief in the Second Coming, while "Seventh-day Adventist" specifically refers to a denomination that observes Saturday as the Sabbath, also believing in the imminent Second Coming. Second Adventists (like Seventh-day Adventists) believe in an imminent, literal return of Christ in the flesh, while Russell and Jehovah's Witnesses believe in an invisible, spiritual return. Second Adventists generally believe in the divinity of Christ, including His pre-existence and role in creation, while Russell's (Bible Students, name changed to Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1931 by Rutherford; Bible Students do not consider themselves as Jehovah’s witnesses at any time) Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Christ was created by God and is not a deity. Second Adventists generally believe in the Trinity, while Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the supremacy of God and reject the Trinity. (Charles Taze Russell was never part of a Second Adventist group though he read some of their teachings and discuss teachings with members, eventually left for some basic doctrinal differences as outlined above)

25

Where is Reinhard Lengtat?

by jst2laws in

jw
friends

sorry for the posting error below.. my wife is reading crisis of conscience now.

this is good news because i know i will have someone to talk to when im caught and dfd.

but in her reading she is recognizing most of the names ( we were there at bethel during the 70s as a married couple) and asked what happened to reinhard lengtat?

blondie

Thanks delldub.

30

The Governing Body is Restructuring the Org.and encouranging young ones to REACH OUT!

by liam in

the governing body just doesn't let up on encouraging the young children to reach out to do free labor for the organization.

so another generation of young people with ruined lives.

another generation of young people that will get old and wake up in their 50s to realize they were in a religious doomsday cult.. and they are getting rid of some old workers that ran the branches of the organization, and giving them different assignments or maybe they are just sending them home, who knows.

blondie

The WTS passes the buck to a nebulous congregation out there. No follow up, no contacting the congregation to see if they follow through. There is no organized program in a congregation to be sure someone is assigned (or several people) to keep track of how they eating, getting places, even the meetings or doctor visits, etc. If an elder assigns (or "asks" someone to volunteer) there is no followup. There was an older woman in the congregation, no jw family, and she needed help. The elders told me that first the non-jw family was obligated first to help her! Of course, jws are told to avoid non-jw family. I was stunned. So I helped her, she had been a good friend to our family. So I helped her and another woman who had no jw family. It seemed that only older jws they were concerned about were those with money, that the elders "pressured" or advised to donate that money to the congregation or the WTS. I have many, many experiences with the WTS, local and national, that shows there is no real love for anyone in the congregation. Here is what the WTS has put in writing but I have never seen it put in practice, except maybe one or two jws who are considered low on totem pole in the congregation. "In some lands, governmental authorities provide pensions, welfare programs, and home-care attendants for senior citizens. (Rom. 13:6) Elsewhere, no such organized services exist. Hence, how much physical assistance relatives and the congregation need to provide for older brothers and sisters varies from situation to situation. If believing children live far from their parents, it may affect how much help the children reasonably are in a position to provide. The children would do well to communicate freely with the elders of their parents’ congregation to make sure that all understand the family’s circumstances. For instance, the elders may be able to help out by assisting the parents to learn about and benefit from governmental or social programs locally. They may also observe situations—such as unopened bills or mismanaged medication—that they can bring to the attention of adult children. Such well-motivated and kind interchanges of information can prevent a situation from getting worse and may well lead to practical solutions. Clearly, on-the-spot helpers and advisers, who effectively act as the children’s “eyes,” may alleviate the worries of a family." 2014 WT March 15, p.23 pp. 15

26

SDAs Campaigning in my Area

by NotFormer in

not even as active as the jws (whom i have not seen for around a year now), nevertheless i get an occasional leaflet or other publication in my letterbox that seems to be seventh day adventist in origin.. the booklet i received the other day was entitled "national sunday law".

i also had received this book years ago when i had some dealings with the sdas.. from reddit: "national sunday law involves a conspiracy theory which alleges that the united states government is on the verge of enacting a national blue law that would make sunday a day of rest and worship.

the theory depends on the idea that the pope is the antichrist and the mark of the beast is worshipped on sunday.

blondie

HereIam60, here is a link which recounts what Harold Camping said about 2 Timothy 3:6 (Just reporting not supporting) https://studyingprayer.com/2011/06/06/the-great-apostasy-of-the-last-days-is-here/

3

Changes to Legal Pressure

by blondie in

jw
friends

i knew some of the changes the wts did due to legal pressure, but here are some i didn't.https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/changes-due-to-legal-pressure.php .

blondie

I knew some of the changes the WTS did due to legal pressure, but here are some I didn't.https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/changes-due-to-legal-pressure.php

blondie

Posts by blondie

Questions From Readers (WT August 2024) p.7

Is the marking described at 2 Thessalonians 3:14 an action taken by the congregation or by individual Christians?