Posts by rick

18

John Dominic Crossan

by kgfreeperson in

i've been listening to john dominic crossan on the radio and am fascinated.

what are your opinions of him as a biblical scholar?

.

Euphemism,

I think I know what you said (for me anywayz).
But could you plz repeat that again?

I can't guarantee I'll go with what you meant, thoh.
Know what I mean???
As long as it means something to somebody....
Ahhhh, nevermind!

It all depends, you know.
Right?
Do you?
Do I?
Huh?

yeah, that
;)

64

James 4:5 -- A Quote From a Lost Apocryphal Scripture

by Leolaia in

in defense of its fundamentalist approach to the bible and especially its belief that the bible is the word of god and inerrent, the wts frequently quotes from 2 timothy 3:16: "all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness".

we must've heard this scripture thousands of times as witnesses.

the words from eldad and modad quoted in hermas, vis.

rick_here

Narkissos, have I mentioned, "I'm pleased to meet you"? (Well, I am, though I do recall seeing some of your posts when I was here (@ jwdf) briefly earlier this year with a different user-name). I understand & agree with your last post (above), btw. I didn't offer any possibilites re: the etiology of the (James 4:5) quotation's source. We could probably say with some sense of accuracy that Genesis 6 might provide some kind of "paradigm" in relation to James 4:5; we're dealing with Jewish and/or Hebrew thought.

Leolaia:

It also might fit with the concept of demon possession as a source of vice and sin....

Right. Alternate translations of Ge 6:3; is it "My Spirit will not abide with man"? or "My Spirit will not contend with man"? Here we have two possible meanings or exegetical possibilites. "Spirit" here is ruach (Hebrew). Does this text merely say that the life-giving "breath" (ruach) is about to leave humanity? In other words, the world is about to be destroyed and no one will be "breathing" or alive any more? (of course, save Noah and his family). Or could this text be speaking about God's personal spirit (or Spirit?) The word that is alternately translated as either "abide with" or "contend with" (here indicative of judgments or of disagreements between God and ppl)...may show that God was simply done with (finished & personally frustrated by) humanity. These are intricate exegetical points that I'm still looking into!

Here's an article by Margaret Barker, author of: The Great Angel: A Study of Israel's Second God. It somehow seems appropriate to this discussion.

The Book of Enoch and Cosmic Sin

Till next time....
;)

13

1 Enoch: A New Translation

by rick_here in

in any event, i was wondering if any you have gotten or plan to get: .

1 enoch, by george nickelsbug and james vanderkam.

i'm gonna get it as soon as i get a job (but nevemind all that).... .

rick_here

A Quick Note:

This book is now available at amazon.com for about $11 + s&h.
A friend of mine ordered it last week and will let me know it's details.

I'll report back here then.

;)

18

John Dominic Crossan

by kgfreeperson in

i've been listening to john dominic crossan on the radio and am fascinated.

what are your opinions of him as a biblical scholar?

.

rick_here

Leolaia is probably right that Crossan isn't a "postmodernist" (what's that supposed to mean? No one agrees)!

Narkissos also more correctly identifies Crossan's theology with a "myth school." I'd link Crossan to the "De-Mythologizing" liberal theology of: Rudolph Bultmann. Imo, the Jesus Seminarians are up-to-date "Bultmannians for today."

But I don't want to debate any of this stuff.

One good thing about liberal theology is that it always asks you about where yer at(?). As an existentialist belief-system, it's gonna do that. (A point well worth considering)....

18

John Dominic Crossan

by kgfreeperson in

i've been listening to john dominic crossan on the radio and am fascinated.

what are your opinions of him as a biblical scholar?

.

rick_here

I've read, and own, several of Crossan's books and "respect" him in terms of his "scope" (in his historical focus in NT Studies). His The Birth of Christianity has been an invaluable reference text in my studies.

Liberal Christianity is somewhat dependent on these historical-reconstructions---and what they may "mean for us today." This is exactly where I depart from the Liberal (theological) Presuppositions. I have even more difficulties with Liberal Theology's "subjective meanings" (which can be assigned to any text). What "you" think the Bible means is what it means; I can't accept that concept. I know of no reasons (at all) to support the divorcing the meaning of the Bible from what it's (original) authors "intended to say" and therefore, meant when they wrote.

easten by dogs). It's not that I find this to be impossible; it's (simply) Crossan's subjective conclusion (which is THE epistemological emphaisis (in Liberal Christianity); I patently reject that presupposition and, therefore, the resulting conclusions.

I don't mean to say that Bible scholars like Crossan don't have any historical tid-bits or details to add to our investigation into the Bible; they do. "Postmodern (christian) Liberal Theology" is where I share next-to-nothing with Crossan.
I do not believe Jesus is an especially-inspirational "religious myth"....(I actually think and feel he's alive)....right-NOW.

9

The Book of Enoch

by VM44 in

the book of enoch has been mentioned here before.

i have some questions i would like to post here, and would very much like to read what people here have to say in answer to them.. .

3) did the book of enoch influence the writings of the new testement?.

rick_here

Dear JWDF Members/ thread-posters,

Please excuse "me" while I Learn How To Post (here, in this/our forum).

thanx

9

The Book of Enoch

by VM44 in

the book of enoch has been mentioned here before.

i have some questions i would like to post here, and would very much like to read what people here have to say in answer to them.. .

3) did the book of enoch influence the writings of the new testement?.

rick_here

From the back cover of:

Beyond the Essene Hypothesis,
by Gabriele Boccaccini
We find commentary by James Charlesworth, distinguished professor at Princeton Theological Seminary:

"Josephus erroneously divided pre-70 C.E. Judaism into four 'sects': Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and Zealots. I am convinced that there were at least a dozen groups within Judaism. One was what Boccaccini calls 'Enochic Judaism,' which was clearly ancient and exceedingly important. Boccaccini suggests that the Qumran group developed out of this Enochic group. His synthesis of early Jewish phenomena is challenging and impressive."

I'll leave it right-there (pending whatever replies)...and how & where this discussion is heading.

9

The Book of Enoch

by VM44 in

the book of enoch has been mentioned here before.

i have some questions i would like to post here, and would very much like to read what people here have to say in answer to them.. .

3) did the book of enoch influence the writings of the new testement?.

rick_here

Here's a few more fyi-links:

Article by James VanderKam

Enoch: at Livius

Enoch with commentary on some Early Fathers, etc.

Intro Article with Links

64

James 4:5 -- A Quote From a Lost Apocryphal Scripture

by Leolaia in

in defense of its fundamentalist approach to the bible and especially its belief that the bible is the word of god and inerrent, the wts frequently quotes from 2 timothy 3:16: "all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness".

we must've heard this scripture thousands of times as witnesses.

the words from eldad and modad quoted in hermas, vis.

rick_here

Consider the following passage in conjuction with Genesis 6:1-8:

1 Enoch 15 (Charles translation)

1 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous 2 man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: "You should intercede" for men, and not men 3 for you: Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children 4 of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die 5 and perish. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget 6 children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly 7 spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. 8 And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon 9 the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; 10 they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless 12 hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.

64

James 4:5 -- A Quote From a Lost Apocryphal Scripture

by Leolaia in

in defense of its fundamentalist approach to the bible and especially its belief that the bible is the word of god and inerrent, the wts frequently quotes from 2 timothy 3:16: "all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness".

we must've heard this scripture thousands of times as witnesses.

the words from eldad and modad quoted in hermas, vis.

rick_here

Greetings-

I got (and have been) "busy."

Plus, I'm just now "Learning How To Make Posts" (@ jwdf).

So I'll be back whenever I find time and can get my "post in order."

Till then,

Be Well (all),

rick

rick_here

Posts by rick_here