Posts by slimboyfat

25

Does any other denomination change Doctrines as often as JW's?

by TerryWalstrom in

would i err in stating most religions and denominations have set doctrines?and yet, the watchtower's version/rendition of christianity is riven with contradictions which stem from changing predictions, policies, doctrines, and interpretations seemingly adrift from foundation or principle.wouldn't you think the constant upheaval, sifting, churn, and reorganization bespeaks whim, mood, uncertainty, and wilful speculation more than divine guidance?there's something endemically jittery and insecure about this religion which i would opine has more than a little to do with unstable mental affect than mere whimsy.what's your take on this?.

slimboyfat

I think a major reason JWs make so many changes is a function of the huge number of dogmatic positions they take, over issues where they really don’t need to take dogmatic positions. It’s just part of JW culture now, to expect, and to receive, official judgements on minute points of Bible interpretation and life issues.

Take Matt 13:32 for example. As I recall the birds in this verse in Watchtower literature used to be agents of Satan. Whereas the latest Watchtower references insist that these birds are in fact rightly disposed humans.

On the other hand I once attended a Christadelphian Bible Study where the speaker suggested that the birds of this verse indicated a corrupting influence, whereas others in the ekklesia said they understood the birds as positive, and indicating the growth of the kingdom. There was open disagreement about the exact meaning, and no need for a dogmatic position to be adopted.

On minor issues like this, most churches simply don’t take a dogmatic position in the first place, so the issue of flip flops doesn’t arise.

So a major reason why JWs have so many flip flops is because they make so many dogmatic pronouncements on so many minor issues.

42

Discontinue unproductive bible study - jw broadcasting

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/latestvideos/pub-ism_2_video.

interesting video explaining how to end a bible study.. watch the kind of uber behaviour of the witnesses: make a choice or we leave.... so hard, so not christian.

no love for the person.. g..

slimboyfat

It’s a bizarre approach, because it’s not like they are overloaded, and have people lining up wanting Bible studies. From what I gather, in the 1970s, leading up to 1975, there was actually a period when JWs had so many Bible studies it probably made sense to prioritise. But now? I think they’re deluding themselves.

Then again, it’s probably not about making the best rational use of time. It’s more about giving JWs a sense of self importance about their ministry. Plus the whole organisation works on the principle of “do more or you are not good enough”, so projecting this attitude toward people who are only at the early stages of entering the movement is a natural extension I suppose.

49

Dilemma of Shunning Policy

by Drearyweather in

apologies if this topic has been discussed earlier.. i was thinking of whether demanding for a ban on shunning policy would be beneficial for the larger society.

following are some things that we need to remember while advocating the issue:.

1. shunning is not limited to jw's and for many americans, it is not that controversial as it seems.. 2. jw shunning is not a dark secret policy.

slimboyfat

Of course dropping shunning would change the organisation dramatically - for the better. The crazier ideas would need to be dropped because they would be exposed to scrutiny. That’s not a threat, it benefits everyone, including the leaders who are probably embarrassed by some of these teachings themselves.

But I think you’re wrong to say it would take a long time to change the shunning culture. Shunning is simply not natural and many JWs would drop it instantly if sanctioned to do so. On the other hand many JWs would continue to have strained family relations inside and outside the religion - as is human nature. They just wouldn’t have the “cover” of disfellowshipping to explain their nasty behaviour any more. Plus there’s also the issue of people who have been shunned for years or decades. Would they forgive JW relatives who now resume contact? That’s a choice individuals would need to make in these complicated situations.

49

Dilemma of Shunning Policy

by Drearyweather in

apologies if this topic has been discussed earlier.. i was thinking of whether demanding for a ban on shunning policy would be beneficial for the larger society.

following are some things that we need to remember while advocating the issue:.

1. shunning is not limited to jw's and for many americans, it is not that controversial as it seems.. 2. jw shunning is not a dark secret policy.

slimboyfat

doubting bro I think it’s pretty easy actually to make the case that organisations that harm the public should not be given tax emeption or charitable status. (We wouldn’t want to support groups that promote self harm for example) That would seem a pretty basic and reasonable requirement for an organisation to receive any sort of support from society.

I also think it’s pretty easy to demonstrate that shunning is a harmful practice. Even Watchtower literature implicitly concedes this point, for instance when it talks frankly about the psychological pressure applied to people who lose all their friends and family. And when it talks about the heartache of disfellowshipping. (Blaming the victim of shunning for the situation, rather than the system of shunning itself of course)

49

Dilemma of Shunning Policy

by Drearyweather in

apologies if this topic has been discussed earlier.. i was thinking of whether demanding for a ban on shunning policy would be beneficial for the larger society.

following are some things that we need to remember while advocating the issue:.

1. shunning is not limited to jw's and for many americans, it is not that controversial as it seems.. 2. jw shunning is not a dark secret policy.

slimboyfat

It would be a net benefit for the organisation.

If shunning stopped it’s true that some JWs would leave as a result, but many more would stay, it would foster an environment for openness and discussion, some of the wackier doctrines like 1914 would be dropped, and those who do feel the need to leave wouldn’t harbour the same resentment or bitterness that the current shunning policy causes. They may keep on good terms with JWs, turn up for the memorial sometimes, retain normal memories of JW life involving good and bad. JWs would be known as a peace community that truly values family and kindness in fulfilling their commitment to Bible principes.

Stopping shunning is a win for everyone.

49

Dilemma of Shunning Policy

by Drearyweather in

apologies if this topic has been discussed earlier.. i was thinking of whether demanding for a ban on shunning policy would be beneficial for the larger society.

following are some things that we need to remember while advocating the issue:.

1. shunning is not limited to jw's and for many americans, it is not that controversial as it seems.. 2. jw shunning is not a dark secret policy.

slimboyfat

I don’t think it’s that complicated actually. The solution is to remove privileges from organisations that promote shunning as policy, not to punish individuals who follow shunning practices of such organisations. So we would allow organisations to practice shunning but remove charitable status or tax exemption and other privileges from these organisations. This would be accompanied by public information explaining the reasons for this approach and the harm caused by shunning communities. This solution avoids any problems surrounding personal freedom because they can still shun if they wish, but there is a reasonable public stigma involved in promoting this practice. If this approach was adopted I think we would be amazed how quickly Watchtower and other groups would drop shunning practices. Or if they didn’t they would suffer significant, and justified damage to their reputation.

It's not about somehow forcing people to talk to other people. Human relations are complicated and cannot be regulated in this way. It is about getting the organisation to remove shunning practices from their literature and policy statements, or allowing them to suffer reasonable reputational and societal consequences if they refuse.

24

Just wanted to share my little bit of good news.

by nicolaou in

i haven't been posting here much lately, i think i only created one topic in 2018!

but this is worth it.. i am a grandfather 😊.

it happens all the time but damn, it feels good.

slimboyfat

Congratulations Nic. Your metaphor of the broken chain reminds me of the work of sociologist Daniele Hervieu-Leger who described the passage of religious traditions down the generations as a “chain of memory”. The idea is that society as a whole has broken the chain of religious transmission and thus become secular. In your own case the chain of Jehovah’s Witness belief has been broken. There is no chance your granddaughter will ever return to JWs in later life because she will never be indoctrinated in the first place. JW belief holds no fundamental place in the worldview of the next generation, and can’t signify chilike security or certainty as it perhaps did for you or me or others brought up in or around the JW religion. As you say, the chain is broken.

24

More on South Africa

by zeb in

jw
friends

https://killingfieldsmovie.com/.

write to your mp help these people to leave to come to safety..

slimboyfat

Given the history of the country, it seems to me, the absolutely remarkable thing is the relavite lack of racist retribution against white people in South Africa. They are dealing with a difficult situation and a tangled history, and I think they should be commended, both black and white people, for the good will and genuine efforts at reconciliation, as imperfect and incomplete as those efforts may be. And on this thread, thanks to Earnest for sharing some facts and personal experience to counter the general climate of ignorance on the topic. Genocide is not a word to throw about lightly for the purposes of political rhetoric. Neither should the politics of South Africa be exploited by those ignorant of its details as a vehicle for promoting agendas closer to home.

13

Ronald L. Lawson Ph.D., Professor Emeritus, Queens College – Papers on Seventh-day Adventism, with some comparisons with Jehovah’s Witnesses

by jwleaks in

ronald l. lawson ph.d., professor emeritus, queens college, cuny – papers on seventh-day adventism, with some comparisons with mormons and witnesses.

9 january 2019. link.

a question that continues to draw research in the sociology of religion is what factors spur the growth of religions (kelley 1972; iannaccone 1994; bruce 2002; hoge and roozen 1979; stark and finke 2000)⁠.

slimboyfat

There are only around 50,000 Christadelphians worldwide, concentrated in Britain, Australia, North America and a few African countries.

Interesting video on Christadelphian Numbers.

https://youtu.be/ER5uEef6UjQ

The Assemblies of God is a huge Pentecostal denomination with millions of members in South America in particular.

13

Ronald L. Lawson Ph.D., Professor Emeritus, Queens College – Papers on Seventh-day Adventism, with some comparisons with Jehovah’s Witnesses

by jwleaks in

ronald l. lawson ph.d., professor emeritus, queens college, cuny – papers on seventh-day adventism, with some comparisons with mormons and witnesses.

9 january 2019. link.

a question that continues to draw research in the sociology of religion is what factors spur the growth of religions (kelley 1972; iannaccone 1994; bruce 2002; hoge and roozen 1979; stark and finke 2000)⁠.

slimboyfat

Yes Ryan Cragun is very good. Here is another he wrote:

https://www.ryantcragun.com/mormons-adventists-and-jehovahs-witnesses-three-american-originals-and-how-theyve-grown/

Lawson also wrote an article decades ago demonstrating the differing trajectories of JWs and SDAs: SDAs have become a denomination of Christianity while JWs remain sectarian in character.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/240592299_Sect-State_Relations_Accounting_for_the_Differing_Trajectories_of_Seventh-Day_Adventists_and_Jehovah's_Witnesses

Their work is a good counter to Rodney Stark who at one time argued both JWs and Mormons were on course become major world religions in this century.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13537909708580796

I know all these artilces are not accessible, sorry.