I don’t think Armstrongism is a good analogy for Watchtower in the current situation. It was basically a family run business that got into trouble, and a few in the leadership who were converted by Evangelicals as a group. They did this while attending an outside biblical studies course. None of these conditions apply to JWs and the chances of the GB doing the same are near zero. The reforms the GB are enacting are practical and policy level. There is no indication they intend to alter their core beliefs in a Protestant evangelical direction as the Worldwide Church of God did. Most people have only read about the Worldwide Church of God and its fallout. I’ve attended services of the continuing body Grace Communion International and some of the splinter groups. I’ve talked to the people - quite an interesting experience as some of them are not totally on board with the evangelical reforms in the continuing body, especially over the Trinity. They were different than JWs in significant respects, and what happened is not a guide to what will happen at Watchtower.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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GB Update #2, March 2024: Women allowed to wear pants, no ties/coats required if not giving a talk, & now able to greet DF ones in the KH!
by WingCommander inyou heard me correct, this is not a joke, and it is not april fools day!
the asl portion of the governing body updated #2 (march 2024) has been released a bit early and someone caught it.
summary: .
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Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions
by slimboyfat ini’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
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slimboyfat
Scholarly articles certainly do cite sources that are a hundred years old, if what they are looking at is what people believed a hundred years ago. It’s cited as a primary source.
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New light on shunning?
by Mikejw inone theory why tony was booted out was because he was a stickler for not changing the shunning doctrine.
he actually said the words we will never ever change it.. they are slowly deleting all of tony’s videos and now losing court cases and losing government hand outs in places like norway.. it’s looking very likely they will release new light on shunning policy after losing this latest one in norway.. .
what are the odds they coincidentally get new light from jehovah and lighten up their shunning policy ?.
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slimboyfat
Notsosure 9 days ago
it’s looking very likely they will release new light on shunning policy after losing this latest one in Norway.
That is a hell of a leap to be honest. It may be a possibility but to say "very likely" when there is no basis to it doesn't make sense. Why is it "very likely"?
Notsosure today
Well its hardly rocket science is it...reason they get defunded in Norway was shunning of kids and they adjust it.
I think most of us expected that...perhaps just not so blatantly obviously so soon.
LOL
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90 DAY DISFELLOWSHIPPING!!!
by DisgruntledFool inhas anyone else caught this tidbit in the new s-395 instructions?:.
"if the individual is not an apostate or actively promoting wrongdoing, they will also inform him that they would like to meet with him again in three months to determine if he has had a change of heart.
in some cases, but not all, the committee may determine that there is basis for reinstating the individual at that time".
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slimboyfat
Yes, so much for “obeying God as ruler rather than men”. Looks like they’ve decided to let Caesar dictate their policies.
Although I don’t think governments care whether JWs wear suits and ties. Is that just a distraction? Or are thd GB genuine about reform in general? -
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90 DAY DISFELLOWSHIPPING!!!
by DisgruntledFool inhas anyone else caught this tidbit in the new s-395 instructions?:.
"if the individual is not an apostate or actively promoting wrongdoing, they will also inform him that they would like to meet with him again in three months to determine if he has had a change of heart.
in some cases, but not all, the committee may determine that there is basis for reinstating the individual at that time".
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slimboyfat
This is all very interesting.
Historical examples of “reform” within movements suggest this could go one of two ways:
1. People will draw the conclusion that everything is being relaxed and the floodgates will open in a disorderly way, including reforms that aren’t explicitly rolled out. Celebrating birthdays, criticising the GB, disbelieving 1914, tattoos, vaping, unsanctioned gatherings, having political opinions, and so on, erupting spontaneously, and the elders not being able to do much about it.
2. The Governing Body could see ordinary JWs taking power into their own hands on issues they never intended to reform and decide it’s too much. A retrenchment and hardline crackdown could follow.
The second is less likely if their overarching concern is to make reforms that please governments. They may see reform getting out of hand but conclude that a crackdown is not viable at that point.
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s-395 Adjustments-to-handling-serious-wrongdoing-in-the-congregation
by gavindlt inthis was posted on jw leaks.. my truth's | dad seeking truth.
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slimboyfat
I have read it a couple of times and I’m struggling to see what the change really is. There seems to be a message between the lines to disfellowship fewer people, say hello to them at the meetings, and to automatically reinstate people who are currently disfellowshipped but say they are repentant.
But at the end of the day they still say to disfellowship unrepentant people, including children. And saying hello to someone at the meeting is not much if you have to ignore them the rest of the time. I think many JWs already said a quick “hello” to disfellowshipped people and this was already allowed in fact. So is this actually a change at all? I’d like to find the earlier reference for saying hello, because I’m sure I remember that.
So what really has changed? They seem to be signalling change without putting much meat on the bones at all.
Reading these instructions, the take away would seem to be that the Governing Body don’t want elders to disfellowship people unless it is unavoidable. In a judicial committee the only thing that would get the person disfellowshipped is if they flat out say “I’m not sorry and I’m not going to stop” whatever it is they are doing. That’s very rarely what happens. More often the person says they’re sorry and they’ll stop and the elders say they don’t believe them for various reasons: usually repeat offences, only stopped when caught, was denounced by somebody else rather than handing themselves in.
The impression the new instructions creates is that if someone says they’re sorry then the elders should take them at their word. It is only an impression and they haven’t spelled this out in so many words, but otherwise it’s hard to understand what the fuss is about. If this is what they mean then they need to state it more clearly, because there will still be hardline elders who stick to the old procedures of not believing the person in the judicial committee, unless they are explicitly told otherwise.
If the so-called adjustment in dealing with minors is intended to appease Norway and other governments I think it may fall short, because they still leave disfellowshipping as an option, and that still apparently involves shunning apart from a brief greeting at the meeting. Even if that cuts down the number of cases drastically, any children at all getting shunned is too many. They need to either abolish disfellowshipping of minors or abolish shunning for minors who are disfellowshipped. Anything less, even being super reluctant to impose the sanction, or only doing so on rare occasions, is not good enough to address the basic point that shunning children is not acceptable.
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GB Update #2, March 2024: Women allowed to wear pants, no ties/coats required if not giving a talk, & now able to greet DF ones in the KH!
by WingCommander inyou heard me correct, this is not a joke, and it is not april fools day!
the asl portion of the governing body updated #2 (march 2024) has been released a bit early and someone caught it.
summary: .
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slimboyfat
To me the core distinctive teachings are: Jehovah’s name, God’s plan for future paradise, no fighting in war, Jesus is an exalted spirit creature, preaching to others, destruction of Satan at the end of the thousand years, and the vindication of Jehovah’s name.
You can eliminate a lot of untrue and unnecessary stuff and still keep core distinctive teachings.
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194
GB Update #2, March 2024: Women allowed to wear pants, no ties/coats required if not giving a talk, & now able to greet DF ones in the KH!
by WingCommander inyou heard me correct, this is not a joke, and it is not april fools day!
the asl portion of the governing body updated #2 (march 2024) has been released a bit early and someone caught it.
summary: .
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slimboyfat
What would be the “significant stuff” still to come?
If they were asking me what to change I’d suggest dropping 1914, allowing women to become elders on equal basis with men, make blood a personal choice, allow birthdays, accept gay people, and expand the canon to include the First book of Enoch.
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GB Update #2, March 2024: Women allowed to wear pants, no ties/coats required if not giving a talk, & now able to greet DF ones in the KH!
by WingCommander inyou heard me correct, this is not a joke, and it is not april fools day!
the asl portion of the governing body updated #2 (march 2024) has been released a bit early and someone caught it.
summary: .
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slimboyfat
The new arrangement for DFing children is that the elders will try especially hard to avoid DFing them and allow parents to take the lead in disciplining them. But at the end of the day he says they will still be DFed if unrepentant.
If this is intended to reverse the decision in Norway I don’t think it will cut the ice, because children can still be DFed in this new arrangement. They’ve attempted a compromise but I don’t think it’s enough.
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New rules for dress & greeting disfellowshipped: It's even worse!
by neat blue dog ini know they're panicking and trying to gain favor with governments, former members, prospective converts & those who are teetering, all for financial worries.
still, the latest update in some ways made things worse, and if there's any jws watching it who are beginning to wake up it should be very disturbing.. starting with dress codes: they say that suits, ties & skirts are no longer required, but in so doing they admit that they were required, something not often appearing as an explicit command in print.
(similar to how lett referred to the "policy on beards" in his video, even though this direct policy wasn't made available to rank and file.
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slimboyfat
I don’t think “slacks” is a word in the UK. From doing a google image search I guess what this means is sisters are now allowed to wear trousers as long as they are smart trousers?