Posts by slimboyfat

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

slimboyfat

Paula Fredriksen explains that Jesus is distinguished from God in Philippians 2.

The Greek, however, does not quite correspond to the RSV’s English. In Philippians 2, Jesus is not "in the form of the (high) God,” but in the form of "a god." Jesus does not demur from equality with God the Father, but from "god-status" or, closer to Paul's word choice, equality with "a god." The god who exalts Jesus in verse 9, by contrast, is the high god (ho theos, the god), referred to as "God the Father" in verse 11. The conventions of English capitalization - "God" with the upper-case G in all clauses - obscure Paul's Greek. Paul distinguishes between degrees of divinity here. Jesus is not "God."
Paula Fredriksen, (2017). Paul: The Pagans’ Apostle. Yale University Press, page 138.

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

Those who read Philippians 2 in agreement with later Trinitarian dogma are invariably scholars who have a prior faith commitment to the Trinity. Scholars who approach the text from a historical perspective read the text in its own first century context, not the fourth century. Many more scholars could be cited, such as Paul Holloway, who explains the passage this way.

Paul conceived of what is commonly referred to as Christ's incarnation as a kind of metamorphosis. According to Phil 2:6-11 Christ was a mighty angel who originally existed "in the form [opñ] of God." For the sake of humans and in obedience to the divine will he took "the form (opon] of a slave," changing himself into human "likeness" (Quoíwua) and "appearance" (oxnua). After his death on a cross, God restored him to his original angelic form, but now as the even more glorious ruling angel who bears the divine Name and shares the divine throne: "therefore God more highly exalted him [UTEpú|woe] and gave him the Name that is above every other name [rò ovoLa Tò UTTÈo Tav övoua], in order that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow .. to the glory of God the Father. "
Paul Holloway, (2017). Philippians. Fortress Press, pages 49 and 50.

You don’t need to agree with the way JWs read passages such as Philippians 2 but you would do well to acknowledge that their reading of such texts is in line with a broad sweep of serious scholars who have studied the text.

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

slimboyfat

E.P. Sanders was a senior biblical scholar who had a huge impact on the field of study. His comments on Phil 2.5–11 are to the point.

In any case, “equality with,” like “form of,” avoids direct identification of Christ with God. The New Testament authors had not yet thought of the idea of the Trinity, and so making Christ a part of a larger Godhead was not an option. His precise relationship no God was usually just called "sonship," which could have a broad meaning as we shall see when we discuss Romans 1. All Israelites were in some sense "sons of God."
In later years, Paul's use of "form of God" and "being found in human form," would lead to numerous debates: was he God or human merely in appearance? In particular, was he a real human? Fortunately we do not have to delve into this. The hymn as written uses "form of" to mean "possessed at least some of the characteristics of," not merely "appeared to be." On the other hand, "possessed at least some of the characteristics of" proposes less identity between God and Jesus than is expressed in the much later formulation, that God and Christ were of the same ousia, "essence."
E. P. Sanders, (2016). Paul: The apostle's life, letters and thought. scm Press, p 603

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

slimboyfat

According to many such approaches, Paul construes Christ as a divine being in 2:6, and his comment about not seeking "equality with God as something to be grasped by force (or as 'booty')" means that Christ did not try to usurp the status of the supreme God (res rapienda). Though the language in v. 6 remains difficult, such a reading makes much better sense of the drama of 2:6-11, which seems to require a move from a lower rank in the heavens to a higher one. Furthermore, though many writers ridicule the use of terms like theos (god) for any but the supreme God of Jewish lore, this amounts to a polemical overstatement that is not carried out consistently in practice (see, e.g., IIMelchizedek ii.10. Thus, the statement that Christ was "in the form of a god" (2:6) need not suggest that Christ had some special identification with the supreme deity, though this idea has proved seductive for some. Instead, and in a rather straightforward way, being in the "form of a god" conveys that Christ was originally a lesser divine being, probably a member of the council or heavenly entourage.
Emma Wasserman, (2018). Apocalypse as Holy War: Divine Politics and Polemics in the Letters of Paul. Yale University Press, page 133.

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

slimboyfat

The New Testament does not teach that the Son, the divine Logos is ontologally less than God the Father.

The NT says that God is in every way greater than Jesus.

Jesus gets his knowledge from God. (Rev 1.1)

Jesus gets his power from God. (Matt 28.18)

Jesus gets his life from God. (John 6.57)

Quite simply “the Father is greater than I”. (John 14.28)

Ontology is the language of philosophy not the Bible, but if you force that language onto the Bible it is clear that God is greater than his Son in every conceivable respect.

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

slimboyfat

Are you using ChatGPT to write these responses?

This exaltation does not imply that Jesus became more divine or that He was somehow less than God before

Yes, it implies Jesus is less than God. Because imagine if those NT statements were made by or about God himself. Imagine God said “all power has been given to me”. You would conclude he cannot be God almighty if he received his power. Or suppose it was said about God that he was “exalted to a superior position”. You would again conclude that we are not talking about God almighty because God cannot be exalted to a superior position as he is always supreme. When the NT repeatedly says things about Jesus that indicate that he is less than God almighty it ought to be clear that Jesus is distinct from and subject to God.

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

slimboyfat

The NT clearly teaches that Jesus was promoted by God after his resurrection. Other scriptures affirm this, such as Philippians 2 and Matthew 28. It would be nonsense to talk about God being promoted to a superior position because God is supreme. The obvious conclusion is that Jesus is distinct and subject to almighty God and owes his position and very existence to God.

Phi 2.9–11 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground — and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Matt 28.18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

slimboyfat

JWs believe that Jesus is superior to the angels for the reasons stated in Hebrews.

1. Heb 1.4 says that Jesus “has become” better than the angels because he has inherited a name better than theirs. This tells us that one reason Jesus is superior to the angels because he was promoted to a superior position by God.

2. But that’s not the only reason. Jesus is, and always has been superior to the angels because he is the “firstborn” according to Heb 1.6, and the angels worship him at God’s direction.

3. Another reason Jesus is superior to the angels is because he is the perfect reflection of God’s glory and he is the one through whom God created the world. (Heb 1.2, 3) Obviously the one who is the reflection of God’s glory is distinct from God at the same time as being superior to everything created by God through that person.

4. Heb 1.8 tells us Jesus is divine in words that were originally applied to the king of Israel but applies to God’s Son in a grander sense. Verse 9 also asserts that Jesus as a divine being is subject to his God.

JWs agree with all these reasons in Hebrews for saying Jesus as God’s unique Son is far superior to the angels. If the author of Hebrews actually believed that Jesus is superior to the angels because he’s part of a Trinity then why didn’t he just say so instead of beating about the bush with 6 or more reasons that place Jesus above the angels but also clearly distinct and subject to God?

72

The Watchtower's Depiction of 'paradise'..

by Ron.W. in

perhaps we could post the pictures the wt have presented in their literature that depict their version of paradise here for comment/discussion:.

from: spirits of the dead—can they help you or harm you?

do they really exist?.

slimboyfat

Very interesting thread.

The early depiction of cars in paradise is interesting.

Does anyone know why there are so many waterfalls and bridges in the pictures over the years?

18

First Church Service at 55 years Old

by SouthCentral in

jw
friends

i went to a christening at a church today, a black church.

it was an incredible experience!!

women were an active part of the service, and the people were very welcoming.

slimboyfat

That’s good 👍

It might not be your thing, but I’ve been to over 30 denominations now to see what they’re like. Yesterday I was in a Lutheran church for the first time, not for a service though. Some churches meet on a Saturday morning such as the Seventh-day Adventists, if you feel like a change of day. They give good food in the afternoon too, vegetarian though. The Iglesia ni Cristo give good food - non vegetarian too. Most just cup of tea and a biscuit, which is more than at the KH.