Posts by slimboyfat

12

Atheist philosopher Philip Goff becomes a Christian

by slimboyfat in

philip goff, professor of philosophy at durham university, in the past few weeks has said that he has become a christian of a fairly liberal and perhaps somewhat heretical variety.

it’s been a long journey from staunch atheism in his teens, to questioning the basis of his atheism and a purely materialist conception of reality as a professor of philosophy specialising in consciousness, to now considering himself a christian.

he says it’s the result of coming to terms with the fact that atheists and theists both have good arguments and looking for a middle ground that accommodates the best arguments of both.

slimboyfat

I think saying he’s 50% convinced doesn't make him confused, it makes him unusually honest. It’s unrealistic to have stupidly high levels of confidence in beliefs that are widely contested. I’m not 100% convinced about anything because there’s always room for being wrong. That doesn’t mean I don’t believe in things enough to act as if they are true. It’s reasonable to act as if the garden path is solid as it always has been, even though something could have hollowed it out from underneath when I wasn’t looking. 👀

I often think it’s useful to attach percentages to things to beliefs, not because it’s even possible to be exact about these things, but because it makes you reflect on the relative confidence you have in various beliefs. I would say I’m about 70% confident there is a God and 40% confident the Bible is inspired by God. For comparison I’m about 80% confident that humans are causing climate change and about 60% sure that the CIA was involved in the assassination of JFK. I’d say there is about 2% chance the moon landings were faked and less than 0.1% chance the earth is flat. I’m more than 90% sure there is a genocide going on in the Middle East right now and worried there might be a 5% chance the Ukrainian war will turn into a nuclear conflict. I think there’s maybe 30% chance Scotland will be independent by 2050 and this has gone down at least 10% in the past week. I think realistically there’s a 20% chance Sturgeon will go to jail, but wish it was higher. I think there’s a 30% chance AI will kill us all and a 20% chance there will be radical life extension in the next few decades. I think it is more than 50% likely that the original NT contained the divine name as JWs claim but less than 5% chance they are correct about 607 BC being the date of the fall of Jerusalem.

164

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

slimboyfat

It reminds me of William Barclay, if I remember right, who argued that theos is qualitative in John 1.1c but was absolutely furious that JWs quoted him on it. He didn’t mind being a heretic himself (he was branded a heretic for believing universalism) but being quoted by heretics to support their heresy was beyond the pale. 😆

12

Atheist philosopher Philip Goff becomes a Christian

by slimboyfat in

philip goff, professor of philosophy at durham university, in the past few weeks has said that he has become a christian of a fairly liberal and perhaps somewhat heretical variety.

it’s been a long journey from staunch atheism in his teens, to questioning the basis of his atheism and a purely materialist conception of reality as a professor of philosophy specialising in consciousness, to now considering himself a christian.

he says it’s the result of coming to terms with the fact that atheists and theists both have good arguments and looking for a middle ground that accommodates the best arguments of both.

slimboyfat

There could also be a god who is all-powerful and unconstrained by morals when it comes to the sandbox universe it created for the purposes of research.

That’s the other logical possibility and he gives his reasons for rejecting that option in the interview. JWs also get a mention at one point. (Only to say he doesn’t find their picture of paradise credible.)

12

Atheist philosopher Philip Goff becomes a Christian

by slimboyfat in

philip goff, professor of philosophy at durham university, in the past few weeks has said that he has become a christian of a fairly liberal and perhaps somewhat heretical variety.

it’s been a long journey from staunch atheism in his teens, to questioning the basis of his atheism and a purely materialist conception of reality as a professor of philosophy specialising in consciousness, to now considering himself a christian.

he says it’s the result of coming to terms with the fact that atheists and theists both have good arguments and looking for a middle ground that accommodates the best arguments of both.

slimboyfat

Philip Goff, professor of philosophy at Durham University, in the past few weeks has said that he has become a Christian of a fairly liberal and perhaps somewhat heretical variety. It’s been a long journey from staunch atheism in his teens, to questioning the basis of his atheism and a purely materialist conception of reality as a professor of philosophy specialising in consciousness, to now considering himself a Christian.

He says it’s the result of coming to terms with the fact that atheists and theists both have good arguments and looking for a middle ground that accommodates the best arguments of both. On the one hand, he finds the fine tuning argument a compelling reason to believe in God, and on the other hand he finds the presence of evil and suffering a compelling reason to reject an all powerful God. The solution he has landed on is that there is likely a God who is not all powerful but has to work within constraints, resulting in suffering and evil. He rejects traditional Christian doctrines such as the virgin birth and substitutionary atonement, but finds the story of Christianity compelling and “likely true”.

I bought his book Why? The Purpose of the Universe last year when he was still an atheist or agnostic. Basically that book argued that the evidence for some kind of design or fine tuning of the universe is becoming so strong now that it is getting difficult to maintain the position that the universe has no purpose while paying attention to the scientific evidence. He was exploring whether it is possible for the universe to have a design and a purpose without a God. Now he has concluded the most reasonable explanation is that the apparent purposiveness of the universe indicates there is a God.

In other news, I see Dawkins is on a farewell tour and struggling to fill seats at some venues. From the heady days of New Atheism in the early 2000s, is a purely materialist view of reality beginning to lose plausibility and mass appeal?

https://aeon.co/essays/i-now-think-a-heretical-form-of-christianity-might-be-true

https://youtu.be/vM_Thg165O8?si=yUrsJFEZfH1PZWlM

2909

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

slimboyfat

Good to know he doesn’t endorse the owner of X, that’s the kind of moral leadership we need. 👍

16

Explanation for changes to Disfellowshipping rules at Annual Meeting

by Listener in

wally, a youtuber from jw thoughts highlighted something that was said by kenneth cook jnr in the annual meeting.

he thinks it may be removed before they publish the agm.

i doubt we would see it in writing either.. part of kenneth's talk was about the changes regarding disfellowshipping and the clip from jw thoughts youtube shows him saying -.

slimboyfat

It’s a confusing mess. I don’t think JWs know if they are coming or going with the DFing rules now.

164

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

slimboyfat

The third point is true, and I don’t know that WT ever stated the first two. Individual JWs may have said those first two points, but people can say all sorts of stuff.

164

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

slimboyfat

I wonder how you explain away this passage from Justin Martyr. The obvious conclusion is that Justin’s views are incompatible with the later Trinity doctrine, and compatible with JW view that Jesus is an angel and was created by God, but I guess you have a way of neutralising the straightforward meaning here?

Hence are we called atheists. And we confess that we are atheists, so far as gods of this sort are concerned, but not with respect to the most true God, the Father of righteousness and temperance and the other virtues, who is free from all impurity. But both Him, and the Son (who came forth from Him and taught us these things, and the host of the other good angels who follow and are made like to Him), and the prophetic Spirit, we worship and adore, knowing them in reason and truth, and declaring without grudging to every one who wishes to learn, as we have been taught. First Apology 6

164

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

slimboyfat

The difference between Jesus and the mythical examples is that Jesus was a historical person. I don’t know what’s so enigmatic about pointing out the mainstream view. It’s a mainstream view that Jesus is distinct from and subordinate to God in Paul’s theology. The specific view of Jesus as an angel in Paul was not as common when Sanders wrote that article as it is now. It has been gaining ground in the work of scholars such as Charles Gieschen (on Gal 4.14), Susan Garrett (Jesus is “no ordinary angel” in the NT generally), Bart Ehrman, John Ashton and Charles Talbert (both support Martin Werner’s angel Christology), Paul Holloway and Emily Wasserman (both see Jesus as an angel in Phil 2).

164

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

slimboyfat

The exaltation of Christ in Philippians 2:9-11 is not an indication that He was elevated from a lower status to a higher one in the divine hierarchy.

I think in any reasonable reading of Philippians 2.9-11 Jesus is elevated to superior position. I know that’s problematic for Trinitarian dogma but Paul didn’t know anything about the Trinity and it shows.

6 who, though he existed in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
assuming human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a human,
8 he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death—
even death on a cross.

9 Therefore God exalted him even more highly
and gave him the name
that is above every other name,
10 so that at the name given to Jesus
every knee should bend,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.