slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  164

  How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

  but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

  new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

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  slimboyfat

  The 19th century was a time of pseudoscience,medical quackery and blatant, un-regulated false advertising.

  A bit like the 21st century then, only less so. 😁
  
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  17

  Dr. James Penton - goin' up yonder dirt nap

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i saw a post on reddit by "big_routine1112" announcing that james penton died.. well, there's always the resurrec... oh, nevermind.. as always, the person expressing the most profound grief and dismay wins!.

  "he was my friend" .

  "there will never be another of his ilk".

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  slimboyfat

  You can’t plagiarise an idea. Farkel started a thread about Rutherford having mistresses and Penton mentioned Rutherford’s possible infidelities very briefly in his book on the Third Reich. Penton’s source for this was apparently Larc, who was also the source for Farkel. Maybe Farkel thought he should get some credit for writing an entertaining thread that brought up some things that many didn’t know but that some already did know. That’s a pretty tenuous basis for claiming plagiarism. In fact, tenuous is not the word. It simply isn’t plagiarism because you can plagiarise an idea, and in this case it isn’t even clear that Penton didn’t get his information from someone else, possibly the same source as Farkel. Farkel was a very entertaining and intelligent character. He was also quite eccentric and a bit of an egomaniac, if we are being real.

  Farkel seemed to think that because Larc told him a story about his aunt and Rutherford and Farkel wrote a thread about it, therefore Larc had no right to tell Penton about it and Penton had no right to reference it in his book. That’s pretty nutty, right?
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  7

  GB's latest prophecy is already wrong!!!

  by nowwhat? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  at the annual meeting they said god will put it into the nations hearts to give their power to the united nations.

  now that trump and the republicans have won, the united states will never give up their sovereignty to the u.n. !

  trump has total disdain for the un, who and wef!

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  slimboyfat

  What Trump says and what he does doesn’t always match. He talked about leaving NATO but actually succeeded in forcing the others members to pay more. Was that the plan all along? Maybe that’s crediting him with too much strategic nous, but maybe not.

  Besides, he’s only there for four years, which is like what, a couple of minutes to Jehovah, no?

  I’m more worried about what he’ll do with Iran, because Netanyahu clearly thinks he can get America under Trump into a war with Iran. Netanyahu was also eerily confident Trump would win when many others didn’t expect it. Did he have an inside track through intelligence?

  Plus Trump raised expectations so high that he could make a deal to end the Ukraine war, what if it goes wrong and Trump feels he needs to “stand up” to Putin to save face.

  Predicting the future is a fools game now more than ever.
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  2909

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  slimboyfat

  Wow I watched the video (and remembered to give a dislike) - that was a laugh. LE thinks I need reassuring that Trump winning wasn’t my fault personally. Wow, thanks for that, I think.

  I wonder if on some level LE recognises Trump as a fellow narcissist and identifies with him.

  Somebody gave a good Frank Zappa quote in the comments, but I wonder if they recognise it applies just as much to the Democrats as the other side:
  

  "Government is the entertainment division of the Military Industrial Complex." Frank Zappa
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  17

  Dr. James Penton - goin' up yonder dirt nap

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i saw a post on reddit by "big_routine1112" announcing that james penton died.. well, there's always the resurrec... oh, nevermind.. as always, the person expressing the most profound grief and dismay wins!.

  "he was my friend" .

  "there will never be another of his ilk".

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  slimboyfat

  Plagiarism is not a matter of opinion and is pretty easy to confirm or refute. What part of “Apocalypse Delayed” is supposed to plagiarise what part of “A People for his Name”? Let’s have a look and see either way. If I recall correctly, “Apocalypse Delayed” does cite and reference “A People for his Name” a number of times, as well as offer a positive review of the book in the annotated bibliography. We’d be looking for significant wording or structural dependence outside direct quotes. It’s perhaps unfair that Penton’s book became much more popular than White’s book, considering how good White’s book was, but that’s not plagiarism. And if your major complaint against Penton is that he remained a Christian, then I have to point out that White’s book also appears to evaluate JWs through the lens lf someone who still has faith in the Bible, perhaps even more so than Penton’s book in fact. Maybe White changed his views in later years, but in the book itself he apparently took it within his remit to evaluate the scriptural arguments of JWs.
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  33

  Historian and former JW Jim Penton dies

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  i don’t know a lot about james penton but i think he deserves a better thread than the one currently on offer.

  james penton, who died recently, grew up in a jw family in canada and served as an elder.

  unusually for a jw, he studied liberal arts at university and became a history professor.

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  slimboyfat

  I don’t know a lot about James Penton but I think he deserves a better thread than the one currently on offer. So here goes.

  James Penton, who died recently, grew up in a JW family in Canada and served as an elder. Unusually for a JW, he studied liberal arts at university and became a history professor. He wrote a positive book about JWs in Canada that was quoted in the Watchtower and he defended some JW positions, such as on blood, in the media in Canada.

  Penton disagreed with the Watchtower leadership on some issues such as whether reporting time in door to door preaching was a requirement for Christians. He formed an association with other brothers over the blood issue before Watchtower set up their own arrangements. He also heard about the rumblings in Brooklyn over Raymond Franz’s exit and visited the headquarters to see what was going on. He was researching a general history of JWs at the same time and didn’t get much cooperation in his research.

  I’m not sure exactly how it went down, although it is documented in a book called “Crisis of Allegiance” by James Beverley, but due to differences with Watchtower leadership and some JWs locally, Penton’s son, other family members, and various friends in the congregation and neighbouring congregations left the JWs in Calgary, Alberta, over a hundred in total, all at the same time. It was one of the biggest mass defections from the JW religion on record and Penton was perceived as being at the centre of it.

  As a former JW, Penton went on to complete his history of JWs titled “Apocalypse Delayed” which has come to be the most cited academic history of JWs. It covered a lot of aspects of Watchtower history that had been swept under the carpet and was quite scathing in its approach. Some academics have criticised the book on the basis of its tone and apparent bias against JWs but it remains a useful source of information. Its most notable impact is that it has probably impacted how Watchtower, and thus how JWs understand and present their own history.

  Penton wrote another book about JWs during the Third Reich intending to expose alleged Watchtower attempts to compromise with the Nazi regime. This book did raise some valid issues that Watchtower wished to forget, but also suffered from being one sided and biased and it was criticised by some academics for that reason.

  Penton maintained belief in God and the Bible after his exit from JWs, apparently in association with a small network non-Trinitarian believers, although he rejected various other doctrines of JWs.

  In recent years Penton spent some time living in Mexico, maintained friendships with other former JW authors and researchers, and was continuing to research the early history of Watchtower for other projects. I don’t think these were completed or published: work on biographies for Russell or Rutherford? Does anyone know?
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  121

  PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

  etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

  ) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

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  slimboyfat

  Oh, oh it looks like I was WRONG!

  Trump wins !
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  39

  Why do most Ex jW W‘s seem to be liberal?

  by JaredScott-1977 in

  1. social
  2. current

  i’m just curious about this dynamic i don’t care personally one way or the other but i do have friends who have chosen to be conservatives and they get totally destroyed on social media pages for their choice.

  it’s almost like a lot of ex jw w become as toxic and his judgmental as jehovah’s witnesses themselves what’s up with that?

  i also know conservative ex jw’s that can do the same so again i’m not leaning one way or the other i’m just noticing factual observations.

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  slimboyfat

  Not on here they ain’t, most are boomer magas, and if 1977 refers to you birth year you’re really far too young to be posting here
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  121

  PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

  etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

  ) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

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  slimboyfat

  That would be the best thing about a Trump presidency, if he actually did it.
• 
  121

  PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

  etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

  ) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

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  slimboyfat

  I think there has been a good chance that Trump would win at various points in the campaign, especially around the time that Biden dropped out and around the assassination attempt. This adequately account for the reluctance of power parties not to wish to cross Trump in case he win. It is not a great indicator of the state of the race at the very end of the campaign because these decisions were made some time ago.

  On the other hand The Economist endorsed Harris and Harris raised more money than Trump and the candidate who raises and spends the most money usually wins.

  But I’m not basing my opinion on that. I’m basically basing my opinion on the polling experts who indicate that Harris will win. In particular Seltzer has Harris on top in Iowa and Nate Silver says the pollsters are herding in the middle because they don’t want to get caught out underestimating Trump for the third time. Which in reality means they are perhaps underestimating Harris this time. Harris is also on top with women voters and women are more reliable voters than men which perhaps gives her a slight advantage that the polls don’t cover.

  So I think Harris will win, perhaps by a significant margin.