Posts by slimboyfat

10

The Deficient Theism of the Watchtower

by aqwsed12345 in

"for my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the lord.

for as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

" (isaiah 55:8-9).

slimboyfat

No, a dodgy referee at a cup final might know the outcome of a game because he fixed it ahead of time.

A skilled referee, on the other hand, knows the shape of the outcome in the sense of how long the game will last, the rules that govern the game, the permutations that could arise in the course of the game, and that one side or other will win.

Jehovah isn’t a dodgy predestinarian referee who fixed the game, he is more like a supremely skilled referee who knows, not only the rules, but perfectly and exactly every possible permutation of the game, when it will end, and what the prize will be.

10

The Deficient Theism of the Watchtower

by aqwsed12345 in

"for my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the lord.

for as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

" (isaiah 55:8-9).

slimboyfat

Not really. The predestinarian God only knows one possible future, whereas Jehovah knows all possible futures that are available for humans to choose from and has set up reality in such a way that allows them the freedom to do so. That is a greater God in every sense.

66

Time of the end - a TRINITY puzzler.

by BoogerMan in

(matthew 24:36) “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

(jesus seems to have forgotten to include the holy spirit not knowing either).

(acts 1:7) "he said to them: “it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.".

slimboyfat

I don’t know, a regular person reads the statement about the person sent not being greater than the sender and it reads like a common sense observation that the sender is obviously greater than the person being sent. A Trinitarian reads it and thinks, “well technically, they could be equal, if we ignore context, and common sense, so yeah let’s go with that, they’re equal.”

Plus there is the fact that Jesus flat out says, “the Father is greater than I”. There is that too.

10

The Deficient Theism of the Watchtower

by aqwsed12345 in

"for my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the lord.

for as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

" (isaiah 55:8-9).

slimboyfat

A couple of questions:

1. Who is more powerful a God who knows everything in the future whether he wants to or not, or a God who can choose what to know in the future?

2. God is all powerful, yet he does not express his power to the full extent in every place at every point in time, otherwise there would be equivalent of infinite atomic explosions everywhere all the time. If an almighty God can choose when to express his power and to what extent, can he not also do the same with regard to his knowledge of the future?

3172

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

slimboyfat

Yep he’s a dream come true for WT.

Makes you wonder if it is possible he’s a plant or double agent. Not really, but he’s that bad for the “cause” it seems remotely plausible.

66

Time of the end - a TRINITY puzzler.

by BoogerMan in

(matthew 24:36) “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

(jesus seems to have forgotten to include the holy spirit not knowing either).

(acts 1:7) "he said to them: “it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.".

slimboyfat

Your comment:

the eternal Word stoops to become the envoy, yet without surrendering his equality with the Sender.

defies common sense and scripture.

John 13:16 Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

66

Time of the end - a TRINITY puzzler.

by BoogerMan in

(matthew 24:36) “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

(jesus seems to have forgotten to include the holy spirit not knowing either).

(acts 1:7) "he said to them: “it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.".

slimboyfat

You claim that early Christian authors who called Jesus an angel didn’t mean he was really an angel but actually almighty God. What a remarkable linguistic trick. But where did the writers themselves ever say that?

Justin Martyr talked about the Son and “the other good angels”, clearly making Jesus an angel, and distinct and subordinate to God. Did he not mean what he wrote either?

Hence are we called atheists. And we confess that we are atheists, so far as gods of this sort are concerned, but not with respect to the most true God, the Father of righteousness and temperance and the other virtues, who is free from all impurity. But both Him, and the Son (who came forth from Him and taught us these things, and the host of the other good angels who follow and are made like to Him), and the prophetic Spirit, we worship and adore, knowing them in reason and truth, and declaring without grudging to every one who wishes to learn, as we have been taught. First Apology 6

66

Time of the end - a TRINITY puzzler.

by BoogerMan in

(matthew 24:36) “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

(jesus seems to have forgotten to include the holy spirit not knowing either).

(acts 1:7) "he said to them: “it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.".

slimboyfat

When is an angel not an angel? When you need to prop up the trinity doctrine, that’s when!

Clement of Alexandria was clear that Jesus was an angel who became a human.

Formerly the older people had an old covenant, and the law disciplined the people with fear, and the Word was an angel; but to the fresh and new people has also been given a new covenant, and the Word has appeared, and fear is turned to love, and that mystic angel is born — Jesus. The Paedegogus 1.7

This view that Jesus was an angel in heaven before his birth was common in early Christianity until it was declared heretical in the 4th century.

66

Time of the end - a TRINITY puzzler.

by BoogerMan in

(matthew 24:36) “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

(jesus seems to have forgotten to include the holy spirit not knowing either).

(acts 1:7) "he said to them: “it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.".

slimboyfat

Nobody can teach God anything, (According to the Bible)

Isaiah 40:14 14
Whom did the Lord consult to enlighten him,
and who taught him the right way?
Who was it that taught him knowledge,
or showed him the path of understanding?

Yet there are things Jesus doesn’t know that God knows. Therefore Jesus is not God.

If you are saying that both Jesus and God can be called “God”, but that God is superior to Jesus in knowledge (and power and eternity) then that’s actually what JWs believe, not Trinitarians.

66

Time of the end - a TRINITY puzzler.

by BoogerMan in

(matthew 24:36) “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.".

(jesus seems to have forgotten to include the holy spirit not knowing either).

(acts 1:7) "he said to them: “it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.".

slimboyfat

Nobody can know more than God. If there is somebody who knows something Jesus doesn’t know, that means Jesus can’t be God.