Posts by slimboyfat

131

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?

by jukief in

by evolution or by creation?

"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".

slimboyfat

That's what Raymond Tallis says, and I can understand that view. But when he says he's not interested in a God he can't make sense of that's an ethical choice on his part. It doesn't mean it holds for everyone or is the objective truth. Other people may be comfortable with the idea that God is beyond comprehension.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/73/Why_I_Am_An_Atheist

And I don't think the scenario is all that unrealistic. Suppose a loved one was killed in a car accident last week and God said he would make it not happen. Not merely that you would forget about it but that it would not happen at all and life will be at it is without the accident happening. Is the damage still done, even if, more than simply not remembering it, God actually changed reality so it never happened at all?

131

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?

by jukief in

by evolution or by creation?

"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".

slimboyfat

Who said it wasn't real?

What I am saying is, as humans we can stop something happening tomorrow, if it is within our power to stop it.

Similarly, can God stop something happening yesterday? I don't know the answer, but it seems a reasonable question to ask, if God is outside time and all powerful.

131

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?

by jukief in

by evolution or by creation?

"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".

slimboyfat

I think it was clear I was talking about God's perspective, because I went on to say:

Does that make God a monster? Maybe, like we are monsters to ants or flies.

I didn't respond to your accusation that I am indifferent to the victims of the tsunami because it is beneath contempt, not because I agreed with the words you put in my mouth.

I don't know if you remember, but I have written before that the tsunami of 2004 is what made me disbelieve in God in the first place. So the words you put in my mouth are particularly misdirected.

I find your persistent use of the images of vulnerable and dead people to make ideological points ethically problematic, but that is your choice. How do you know they would agree with you about God or how they would feel about being used to make this point? Does that matter?

A rapist can't undo a rape yesterday, but he can choose not to rape tomorrow.

So a key question, which you have still not engaged with is, if God can undo suffering today, can he also undo suffering yesterday? Humans can't do this of course, but can God do it?

I don't mean simply that God will make people forget about the suffering yesterday, I mean make it not happen at all. If God is outside time maybe he can do this. I don't know whether you don't understand the distinction between not remembering something and it not happening at all, or you are just avoiding it.

131

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?

by jukief in

by evolution or by creation?

"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".

slimboyfat

Again it is not a about memory, it is about actually removing suffering itself. If God can stop someone being hit by a bus tomorrow, can he stop someone being hit by a bus yesterday? Not simply make the person forget it, but actually stop the event itself. If God is outside time then maybe he can just as easily stop something yesterday as he can today or tomorrow.

And I meant that maybe our suffering does not matter as much to God as it does to us. And I talked about "our suffering" since we all experience it. I did not mean to say that I don't regard the suffering of people in tsunamis and other disasters as real or terrible. Which I could have said if you asked me, instead of putting very specific and stupid words into my mouth. Using pictures of people suffering to make your ideological points is what I personally would describe as callous. How do you know that the people whose images you are exploiting agree with your views about God? Or is that not important.

18

Social Media

by Emily1987 in

jw
friends

as some of you may remember from a previous post of mine, myself and my husband are in the process of fading.

we began our fade in jan 2017 and haven't been to a meeting since may 2017. to say this time has been a struggle is an understatement.

it has been a lonely time for us, losing all of our so called friends.

slimboyfat

There was something about social media at the circuit assembly last year. Something about instagram, which I know noting about. A really obscure point of criticism that I can't remember, like don't post pictures of your breakfast or something. Then there was something about not going on holiday with inactive family in the circuit visit. Plus an odd comment about not going to the supermarket after the meeting. Too much weird stuff to keep track.

131

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?

by jukief in

by evolution or by creation?

"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".

slimboyfat

Maybe God can keep the good that has happened while removing the bad. Is that possible? I don't know. If God is God, why not?

More than offering any particular solution, I am suggesting that, if God exists, then there could well be solutions to the problem of evil that we can't even imagine or begin to describe.

If you ask me to describe the mechanics of airplane flight for example, I wouldn't know where to begin. Not just the details, but I don't even know the language or symbols involved or what counts as an explanation in this context.

So what makes us think we are up to the challenge of accurately perceiving, describing, and concluding there is no solution to the problem of evil. If God exists it seems reasonable to suppose he knows more about it than we do, or can do.

Plus what if God simply eliminates suffering in the future. Atheists may say that's not good enough, but many believers may think that does preserve God's goodness. It's a genuine difference in moral judgement. Atheists may be convinced they are right, but if God and believers feel otherwise, how do you judge between the different perspectives. In the end you just get atheists shouting "I am right and you are stupid and callous if you don't agree with me". Is that really any way to settle the issue?

131

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?

by jukief in

by evolution or by creation?

"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".

slimboyfat

humbled, yes it's all troubling. I don't think there is an easy answer at all. But what I was suggesting is not like memory being wiped. It is God making it not have happened, which is deeper and more profound than memory being wiped.

Think about it this way. If God exists could he stop someone being run over by a bus tomorrow? I think he could. And if God exists could he stop someone being run over by a bus last week? Given that God is outside space and time, he probably could change reality so that someone wasn't run over by a bus last week. And if he did that, then reality would be changed, not simply a memory erased. The suffering would be gone, not just in the present or the future, but in that past as well.

If God can do this with a single event, can he do it for all suffering? I don't know. But if he is God maybe he can and maybe it is wrong to say there is no way to reconcile goodness and almightiness. We just don't know everything about reality to be able to say definitively.

131

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?

by jukief in

by evolution or by creation?

"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".

slimboyfat

God's perspective about human suffering is not relevant.

Well that's God telt.

But what if God says your perspective is not relevant?

131

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?

by jukief in

by evolution or by creation?

"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".

slimboyfat

I am interested in questions about God and reality and sharing and discussing ideas. It's not much of a discussion if we can't probe the boundaries of what is possible. The idea that the human mind may not be able to understand the answer, or the idea that God has a different perspective on suffering (that it doesn't matter as much to him) may be difficult, but they are ideas worth exploring, if we are genuinely interested.

All you seem to want to do it shut down anyone who doesn't toe the line by calling names and ascribing bad motives. A poor way to genuinely explore any topic.

131

Do Jehovah's Witnesses Accept Evolution?

by jukief in

by evolution or by creation?

"the bible is a myth" and "evolution is true".

slimboyfat

I just solved the problem of evil and all you can say is "ridiculous"!

If God can prevent suffering now, then can he prevent suffering in the past? If God is outside space and time maybe it doesn't mean very much to make a distinction between present and past. If God's will is to make all suffering non-existent in all time, then how can we say that's impossible. Has anyone come up with this solution before? I think it's genius, if I do say myself.