slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  38

  How far will they go?

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  imagine: you have inside information that could destroy the watchtower corporations.. how far would they go to protect the assets?.

  would they kill?

  no strange question in blackwater etc days.. g..

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  slimboyfat

  JWs have become increasingly lax in how they count publishers, counting 15 minutes, and elders filling reports on behalf of publishers. In one case the WT even admitted that a branch exaggerated the number of publishers to impress HQ!

  The only extensive independent data we have on JWs comes from national censuses. For example in Canada there were 155,000 JWs in 2001 compared with 138,000 in 2011. Is that growth or decline? In Australia the census showed 83,400 JWs in 1996 compared with 82,500 in 2016. Is that growth or decline Morph?

  In fact are there any census results, or other independent surveys that show JWs increasing? I would be interested to know.

  Congregation numbers are an excellent way to measure the vitality of any religious community for the many reasons I have given before. That is why the decline in JW congregations is so significant.
• 
  38

  How far will they go?

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  imagine: you have inside information that could destroy the watchtower corporations.. how far would they go to protect the assets?.

  would they kill?

  no strange question in blackwater etc days.. g..

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  2. 
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• 

  slimboyfat

  Number of congregations declined in Germany and United States last year. That is real decline. And they have been declining in Japan and elsewhere for a while. I have argued for years that congregation numbers are the best measure of size and growth, long before the numbers started dropping. Watch that space. With all the consolidation going on now, next year’s figures should be fascinating. If WT release the figures next year, that is.

  Census returns in Canada and Australia also show declines in those self-identifying as JWs. My own observation is that attendances at conventions locally are down at least 10% from the peak.

  Plus there is very good census data (shared by shepherdless) to show that the average age of JWs is climbing rapidly. I see the same in congregations and at conventions, and other posters have observed the same. Increasing age is a very reliable indicator of future decline in religious activity across many different groups such as Anglicans, Methodists and Church of Scotland in the UK.

  I don’t want JWs to fail. I want them to reform. And collapse might prompt that to happen. But actually I argued for years on this forum that JWs enjoyed good growth, because compared with most other religious groups that was true! But when the trends started to change I changed my view.
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  52

  Commentary on the Letter of James

  by lepermessiah in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  zoiks inspired this thread when he mentioned this book elsewhere.. i have read other threads on this forum about it, but i always enjoy the fresh insight on here.. commentary on the letter of james was always my favorite book from wtbs, partly because i love the book of james, but also because it was one of the books that dealt with more practical christian living than constant wt doctrine.. i mentioned to a number of people that i loved that book, and got a few comments of "well, you know that book was written by an apostate.".

  it didnt take me long to do a little math - that book came out i believe in 1979/1980, right around the time of the great purge.

  how could someone write such an excellent book and then be branded an apostate just a few months later???.

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  slimboyfat

  It’s the book that says masturbation leads to homosexuality for example.
• 
  38

  How far will they go?

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  imagine: you have inside information that could destroy the watchtower corporations.. how far would they go to protect the assets?.

  would they kill?

  no strange question in blackwater etc days.. g..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Just because an organisation has survived problems in the past doesn’t mean it will survive problems in the future. That’s illogical. It’s like saying that because I survived measles as a child, therefore I won’t die of another illness tomorrow. It just doesn’t follow.

  Where history is relevant is looking for trends and comparisons. On this front JWs resemble other organisations that have collapsed and many longstanding trends indicate they are in deep trouble. The fact that they may have survived this or other crisis or scandal decades ago is irrelevant to the current situation.
• 
  38

  How far will they go?

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  imagine: you have inside information that could destroy the watchtower corporations.. how far would they go to protect the assets?.

  would they kill?

  no strange question in blackwater etc days.. g..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Morph why do you have it as an article of faith that nothing can bring the organisation down? Surely it’s as fallible as any organisation and collapse is possible. You seem as sure about the survival of Watchtower as any true believer!

  In reality Watchtower is particularly vulnerable for many reasons, just a few of which: it relied on media sales for income which is now gone; their own belief in God’s blessing and Armageddon result in very poor strategic, financial and doctrinal decisions; they keep adherents uneducated and socially immobile and thus in no position to donate; they are only growing in poor countries, which are a net loss to organisation funds, and on and on.

  If any religion is vulnerable to collapse it is Wa5chtower, yet you say it can’t happen. Why can’t it happen?
• 
  23

  What happned to the Quick Builds

  by blownaway in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so the qbs were huge in the 80s and 90s, now i hear nothing.

  have they stopped?.

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  slimboyfat

  Has this already been mentioned? I was thinking of making a thread about it.
• 
  23

  What happned to the Quick Builds

  by blownaway in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so the qbs were huge in the 80s and 90s, now i hear nothing.

  have they stopped?.

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  slimboyfat

  Due to ongoing organisational collapse.
• 
  52

  Commentary on the Letter of James

  by lepermessiah in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  zoiks inspired this thread when he mentioned this book elsewhere.. i have read other threads on this forum about it, but i always enjoy the fresh insight on here.. commentary on the letter of james was always my favorite book from wtbs, partly because i love the book of james, but also because it was one of the books that dealt with more practical christian living than constant wt doctrine.. i mentioned to a number of people that i loved that book, and got a few comments of "well, you know that book was written by an apostate.".

  it didnt take me long to do a little math - that book came out i believe in 1979/1980, right around the time of the great purge.

  how could someone write such an excellent book and then be branded an apostate just a few months later???.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I was surprised some time time ago to discover that Raymond Franz wrote the old Family Life book. Is that true? Considering it has some of the more infamous statements on sexuality and gender relations.
• 
  80

  Rumor: New light comes from outside marketing consultants

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this is a rumor i heard back in november, it comes to me third or fourth-hand.

  feel free to poke holes.

  i have many doubts about this myself.

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  slimboyfat

  Actually there are huge lessons JWs could learn from Mormons, Adventists and others that they have not learnt. Which makes me suspect they are not actively engaged with reflecting on such comparisons with a view to strategy.

  Mormons and Adventists have much more effective ways of encouraging and soliciting funds and they are much more savvy in their public relations and engagement with state agencies.

  JWs actually appear quite naïve in how they approach “strategy” if you can even call it that. Most of the leadership apparently do genuinely believe they are specially called by Jehovah and that Armageddon will come soon. This has inevitable consequences in terms of formulating effective strategy across the board: whether that be weird stop-gap doctrinal innovations such as the “overlapping generation”; complacent and ineffective responses to scandals such as the Australian Royal Commision; or financial naïveté resulting in financial crisis since 2015.
• 
  80

  Rumor: New light comes from outside marketing consultants

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this is a rumor i heard back in november, it comes to me third or fourth-hand.

  feel free to poke holes.

  i have many doubts about this myself.

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  slimboyfat

  They want to ask a refund whoever supplied them overlapping generations.