Yes they are shrill, because they are facing a crisis that threatens the very existence of the organisation, due to scandals, no money, incredible doctrines, poor leadership...
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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97
Material such as the film at the end of this years convention confirms that I was right to take my kids out the religion
by jambon1 init’s quite affirming to see the horrific material that they’re serving up at the convention this year.
aside from blatant homophobia, the scenes at the end of the convention that are discussed on another thread stoop to new levels of fear mongering.
it seems to occur to nobody inside the organisation that this kind of material could trigger fear, deprsssion, anxiety, stress.
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110
If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!
by nowwhat? ini have to make a token appearance at the k.h.
once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.
and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.
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slimboyfat
Methodists in Britain are down nearly 90% from their peak and on current trends are due to disappear altogether within 20 years.
If the churches I’ve visited in Scotland are any indication, they could disappear even faster than that. There are only a handful of people left in each of the 40 (at last count, maybe fewer now) Methodist churches in Scotland.
That’s not collpase?
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110
If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!
by nowwhat? ini have to make a token appearance at the k.h.
once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.
and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.
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slimboyfat
The disappearance of MethodIsm is pretty dramatic especially for those involved. I’ve had some conversations with Methodists and they seem bewildered by the pace of collapse. It may seem slow to you but to those involved it doesn’t seem to slow when a huge church you were born into is now all but gone.
What about the Worldwide Church of God, would you consider that collapse?
In fact is there any example of religious disintegration you would describe as collapse?
The business model of WT has already failed and they are in hasty retreat. The question is whether it will be a long decline as with the Methodists or a sudden fall like the WCOG. I think there are reasons to believe it will be more like the latter.
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97
Material such as the film at the end of this years convention confirms that I was right to take my kids out the religion
by jambon1 init’s quite affirming to see the horrific material that they’re serving up at the convention this year.
aside from blatant homophobia, the scenes at the end of the convention that are discussed on another thread stoop to new levels of fear mongering.
it seems to occur to nobody inside the organisation that this kind of material could trigger fear, deprsssion, anxiety, stress.
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slimboyfat
I agree it is worrying.
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110
If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!
by nowwhat? ini have to make a token appearance at the k.h.
once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.
and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.
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slimboyfat
Yes it’s clear that third world growth is a problem for WT now that they no longer charge for the literature, so they’re actively working to curb the areas of growth that remain, by stopping sending missionaries and not expanding branches in poorer countries.
Another question for Morph: if Watchtower is doing just fine, and transitioning from old style publishing into a sophisticated online relgion, then how come even the quality of their online video dramas is in decline? Broadcasting cancelled in December and January, and so on?
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97
Material such as the film at the end of this years convention confirms that I was right to take my kids out the religion
by jambon1 init’s quite affirming to see the horrific material that they’re serving up at the convention this year.
aside from blatant homophobia, the scenes at the end of the convention that are discussed on another thread stoop to new levels of fear mongering.
it seems to occur to nobody inside the organisation that this kind of material could trigger fear, deprsssion, anxiety, stress.
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slimboyfat
even a few KH'S sold off, how do they sell off KH's in the big city, if they have an increase in membership?
Decreasing numbers of congregations, and KHs closing are no indication of JW decline, according to Morph-logic. It’s principle number 3 in the collapse deniers’ charter.
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Dawkins on Jehovah's Witnesses' "Creation" book
by slimboyfat inhas anyone read dawkins new book the god delusion yet?
he discusses the creation book on pages 119-121. he says that he discusses this particular tract only because it has had such a wide circulation - no fewer than 6 of which have been sent to him personally.
well i think he has at least 7 copies by now because i personally know one witness who sent him one following his recent the roof of all evil?
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slimboyfat
Has Dawkins fully recovered? I think he had a stroke a while back.
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44
Dawkins on Jehovah's Witnesses' "Creation" book
by slimboyfat inhas anyone read dawkins new book the god delusion yet?
he discusses the creation book on pages 119-121. he says that he discusses this particular tract only because it has had such a wide circulation - no fewer than 6 of which have been sent to him personally.
well i think he has at least 7 copies by now because i personally know one witness who sent him one following his recent the roof of all evil?
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slimboyfat
Yep that’s right - slimboyfat promoting Dawkins since before other posters were even invented.
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Colwell’s Rule must die!
by Wonderment incolwell, a trinitarian methodist, was apparently affected by various translators of his time and before, that were translating john 1:1 differently from the norm: "the word was god.
" you had moffatt’s version saying "the word was divine" (1922); a french bible, "a divine being" (1928); belsham, "a god" (1808); benjamin wilson: "a god" (1864); robert young: "a god" in his commentary of 1985. colwell likely knew that various french and german bibles were being published challenging the traditional rendering "god" of john 1:1 as well.. so he set out to prove them wrong.
he began by formulating a "rule" regarding predicate nouns and the greek article, whether they occurred after or before the verb.
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slimboyfat
Worth also mentioning the article by Philip Harner, an evangelical who acknowledged the problems with Colwell’s rule, but argued for a qualitative sense of “God” in John 1:1c in line with Trinitarian theology: an admission that the traditional Trinitarian defence of John 1:1 was defective.
Harner, P. B. (1973). Qualitative anarthrous predicate nouns: Mark 15: 39 and John 1: 1. Journal of Biblical Literature, 92(1), 75-87.
And also worth mentioning is the Coptic version of John 1:1 that includes the indefinite article at John 1:1c.
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110
If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!
by nowwhat? ini have to make a token appearance at the k.h.
once a month or so and this week went to a different hall.
and believe me they are all still totally oblivious to all the negative news about the pedophiles and shunning that have come under scrutiny by the media and other governments.
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slimboyfat
Doubting Bro, I explained earlier in the thread what I meant by collapse, using comparisons with other religious groups. Collpase could proceed along a path similar to the Methodists in England. They grew until the middle of the 20th century when they had nearly 1 million members. They began steep decline in the 1950s and now there are very few left. It has been predicted the church will close altogether by around 2035. See the chart of their decline which is about one third of the way down this page:
https://peopleneedjesus.net/2015/07/06/seven-principles-for-another-methodist-turn-around/
On this path JWs are around about where the Methodists were in 1950. So in that scenario decline would be steep and they could disappear altogether within 80 years or so.
Or collapse could be quicker than that. More along the lines of the Worldwide Church of God. Numbers are more difficult to chart in this case than the Methodists, but indications are that the decline was even more dramatic. In the 1980s circulation of The Plain Truth was greater than the Watchtower and it was a worldwide church. Then the founder died, they had scandals and financial crisis, and the church splintered and reformed. There is barely anything of this church left. People who say the Worldwide Church of God still exists - I wonder if they’ve ever been to any of their services, or spoken to any of their members? I have. There are hardly any of them left, they are all older people, and there is no sense in which this church has any future at all. In Scotland there was once hundreds of members in lots of churches. Now they have a handful of churches left with a handful of people in each. We’re talking about a reduction from probably over 1000 members to less then 50 within a couple of decades. If that isn’t collpase then I don’t know what is. I noticed similar figures and a reduction of around 90% in census data recently too. That’s the sort if scenario I’m talking about. People who say “the Worldwide Church of God” is still around don’t really know what they’re talking about, in my opinion. There may be traces of the church left at this stage, that is all.
Morph, how can you say JWs are still growing when census figures show they are in decline? You cite growth in Watchtower publisher numbers, but it’s worth noting that this growth is contradicted by the census numbers in Canada and Australia. It’s also worth noting that Watchtower doesn’t even release average publisher numbers any more. Instead they publish peak numbers, which we know is generally the August figure where elders report everyone in the congregation, and sometimes put in double reports. So getting an accurate picture from the peak figure is doubtful, and the average figure is no longer available. Plus even the reported peak numbers are down in Europe. And number of congregations is down in the United States, Germany, Japan and elsewhere.