Posts by slimboyfat

42

Watchtower Corp of New York worth over$ 2 billion

by Diogenesister in

in the montana sex abuse court case for the first time watchtower has been required by the courts to give a financial statement to the court to assess awards of punitive damages for negligence and (for the first time)malice in non compliance of mandatory reporting laws.. watchtower corp of new york has finances in excess of $2 billion while cc of jw is worth $49 million.

this doesn't include the pensylvania corp or what overseas branches may have.. pretty healthy bank balance by any standards..

slimboyfat

Morph, if the $1.6 billion figure does include KHs and all other property assets then they are effectively broke. Because their property in total is certainly worth a lot more than $1.6. So the only way they could have a net value of $1.6 billion is if they have significant debt. If they are in serious debt then it’s an indication that they have little cash on hand. If they have little or no cash in hand then they would need to sell KHs, assembly halls and/or other property to pay for damages awarded against them. At which point the integrity of the organisation itself becomes difficult to maintian.

A news article states the intention of some to either force Watchtower to change its protection policies or else go broke defending them. This seems a realistic prospect, so it’s interesting to see what they will do, assuming it’s not already too late for them to turn the situation around.

42

Watchtower Corp of New York worth over$ 2 billion

by Diogenesister in

in the montana sex abuse court case for the first time watchtower has been required by the courts to give a financial statement to the court to assess awards of punitive damages for negligence and (for the first time)malice in non compliance of mandatory reporting laws.. watchtower corp of new york has finances in excess of $2 billion while cc of jw is worth $49 million.

this doesn't include the pensylvania corp or what overseas branches may have.. pretty healthy bank balance by any standards..

slimboyfat

I am just going by what they said on the podcast, which was based on what was said in court. If documents were provided to the court with greater detail are they publicly available?

Yes the problem with the $1.6 billion figure is that it’s either too high or it’s too low.

If it’s the money Watchtower has in cash and other liquid assets that’s far too high a figure.

If it’s the total value of all assets including KHs then it’s far too low.

So what are the possibilities?

That the figure includes HQ and other property, but excludes KHs?

And/or Watchtower has taken on significant debt which counts against their assets in their net worth? If that’s the case they may be in serious trouble, because even selling KHs may not be enough to cover payouts, and stay operational as an organisation.

Even if Watchtower don’t end up paying the full $35 million, the news story itself is bound to have a chilling effect on Watchtower donations. And more is surely on the way.

42

Watchtower Corp of New York worth over$ 2 billion

by Diogenesister in

in the montana sex abuse court case for the first time watchtower has been required by the courts to give a financial statement to the court to assess awards of punitive damages for negligence and (for the first time)malice in non compliance of mandatory reporting laws.. watchtower corp of new york has finances in excess of $2 billion while cc of jw is worth $49 million.

this doesn't include the pensylvania corp or what overseas branches may have.. pretty healthy bank balance by any standards..

slimboyfat

The Swiss branch was another one they sold, after 100 years, or something. You can only sell assets once. Once it’s gone it’s gone. Ultimately Watchtower depends on donations from JWs for funding. How can Watchtower ask JWs to pay $30 each for cases like this, on top of everyday running costs? It’s not sustainable whatever way you look at it. Any nest egg they have from property sales is far from inexhaustible. In fact it may not have been all that large, and already near exhausted. They’ve already cut, and begged, and sold assets. So what do they do next?

42

Watchtower Corp of New York worth over$ 2 billion

by Diogenesister in

in the montana sex abuse court case for the first time watchtower has been required by the courts to give a financial statement to the court to assess awards of punitive damages for negligence and (for the first time)malice in non compliance of mandatory reporting laws.. watchtower corp of new york has finances in excess of $2 billion while cc of jw is worth $49 million.

this doesn't include the pensylvania corp or what overseas branches may have.. pretty healthy bank balance by any standards..

slimboyfat

The figure I heard was $1.6 billion from John Redwood in a podcast. He also said this was a net figure and includes the value of property including Kingdom Halls.

There are 13,500 congregations in the United States. If on average each KH is used by two congregations or slightly more that indicates around 6000 KHs in the United States. How much would each KH be worth? If each KH was worth $266,000 on average then that would account for the whole figure of $1.6 billion with no cash left over.

This doesn’t even take into account the value of Warwick, Patterson, Wallkill, Assembly Halls, and whatever other property they own.

Surely their property holdings alone are worth far more than $1.6 billion? So the figure raises more questions than it answers. For one: what other corporations are associated with JWs and what is their net value? Does the Pennsylvania corporation have many assets? It seems like this would be a reasonable question to ask in court if the purpose of the exercise is to ascertain the ability of JWs to pay compensation.

How much money does Watchtower actually have in the bank? Very little, could be the answer. Unless conspiracy theories about them holding lots of money in other corporations is true.

But at the end of the day their money comes from donations from JWs. And JWs are not wealthy, or generous with donations. So the idea that Watchtower has a huge secret reserve somewhere does not seem very credible. Where would it have come from?

If Watchtower does end up paying $35 million for this latest case, that’s equivalent to JWs in the United States putting their hand in their pocket and paying $30 each, for this one case alone.

And some people still argue they are not in financial difficulty?

25

Thought Provoking Question to a JW?

by Solzhenitsyn in

did jesus ever utter the name jehovah?.

and if he didn't what are the implications?

nwt answers don't count but feel free to use the kingdom interlinear.

slimboyfat

Jesus likely used the form of the divine name Yaho, which was common among Jews in his day.

This version of the divine name was used in the LXX.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4Q120

It occurs in name lists (onomastica) used by Jews and later Christians.

Classical authors Diodorus and Varro said the Jews called their God Yaho.

Origen used the name Yaho in his commentary on John.

There are indications that some Jews avoided using God’s name in the first century, but the evidence is that this only became standard later.

See Frank Shaw’s book reviewed here by Anthony Meyer.

http://www.jhsonline.org/reviews/reviews_new/review763.htm

55

* 2018 Mergers and changes to UK congregations *

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

i have a document containing a list of all congregations in the uk.

periodically i go through the links and check to see if they're still registered as charities and if the location of the congregation is the same.. instead of posting a large list of changes all at once, i will be adding each change that i find in a new reply to this thread.. please check back here periodically.. truthseeker.

slimboyfat

Thanks for the info. Wasn’t there a Stevenston congregation at one time, as well as Kilbirnie?

So there’s no KH in the three towns or Kilbirnie?

Can you list any congregations/KHs in Ayrshire that have closed in the past 20 years or so?

17

JWs using 'apostate' phraseology?

by neat blue dog in

i've mentioned before how a regular pioneer used the phrases "tight-pants tony" and "don't drink the kool-aid".

well the other week, a different regular pioneer, and elderly one in fact, was talking about the simplified watchtower being discontinued and the normal one replacing it, and she said 'i guess they're just gonna dumb-down everything'.

then too even the org itself used the words "fade" and "shun" in recent articles, words that were previously shied away from.. anybody here experienced something similar, a seeming pimi saying something that makes you wonder if they've been sneaking ex-jw 'spiritual food' on the side?.

slimboyfat

The very fact that JW website now uses the word “shun” in relation to DFing. I can’t recall that was a JW term in that context before apostates popularised it.

In fact, the fact that JWs are adopting apostate terminology in relation to shunning seems to me to be a hopeful sign that they are on a journey toward abandoning the practice.

55

* 2018 Mergers and changes to UK congregations *

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

i have a document containing a list of all congregations in the uk.

periodically i go through the links and check to see if they're still registered as charities and if the location of the congregation is the same.. instead of posting a large list of changes all at once, i will be adding each change that i find in a new reply to this thread.. please check back here periodically.. truthseeker.

slimboyfat

That’s excellent, any information on Scotland?

From what I can tell: Glenrothes seems to have merged two congregations into one in the last year or two.

There is no longer a congregation in Ardrishaig.

Stevenston congregation looks like it is gone, replaced by Kilbirnie, but located in Stevenston! There must be a story there.

Further back: weren’t there more congregations in Ayr and Perth at one time? And wasn’t there a congregation in Ardossan or Saltcoats?

40

Any word yet on the Annual Meeting?

by careful in

it's just a week or two away and still no sign of the usual hype?

very strange.... anyone heard anything about it?

perhaps from those still in to some degree or from relatives/friends still in?.

slimboyfat

If you watch last year’s broadcast carefully, there is an odd sort of dynamic between Tony Morris and the members of the Watchtower Society. Almost as if he was trying to appease them, while announcing further cuts.

Is there possibly a move by Watchtower members to take over control of the Society? Does the structure allow for this? Strictly speaking the GB don’t have any legal power any more, so they may be vulnerable to a conspiracy, should it get off the ground. This assumes the presence in be movement of people with initiative, foresight and ethical independence: the very characteristics the GB attempt to drain from members and install loyalty.

40

Any word yet on the Annual Meeting?

by careful in

it's just a week or two away and still no sign of the usual hype?

very strange.... anyone heard anything about it?

perhaps from those still in to some degree or from relatives/friends still in?.

slimboyfat

Morph and careful, the voices of “reason” on the forum?

But seriously, consider what we know. That Watchtower faced a serious financial crisis in 2015 and embarked on a series of cuts to try to solve the problem. That having failed they have initiated a programme of selling KHs and other assets. And then comes the latest news of the biggest abuse compensation Watchtower has ever faced, with the prospect of more to follow. If all that doesn’t put them in a panic then what would? And if they were trying to give the appearance of running the show as normal you might expect them to make a big deal of the annual meeting. The fact they can’t even do that is revealing.