slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  42

  Watchtower Corp of New York worth over$ 2 billion

  by Diogenesister in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  in the montana sex abuse court case for the first time watchtower has been required by the courts to give a financial statement to the court to assess awards of punitive damages for negligence and (for the first time)malice in non compliance of mandatory reporting laws.. watchtower corp of new york has finances in excess of $2 billion while cc of jw is worth $49 million.

  this doesn't include the pensylvania corp or what overseas branches may have.. pretty healthy bank balance by any standards..

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  slimboyfat

  Corney those figures you present are very interesting. Can I ask are they publicly available? I would interested in both sets of figures for all the years from 2009, or earlier, if availabe.

  They look credible to me and I think we can draw some conclusions.

  There seemed to be a significant drop in the assets of the Pennsylvania corporation in 2015. It was the same year that Lett issued the call for more donations.

  Then the combined assets of both corporations increased from 2014 to 2017 by $315 million, or 19%.

  This was the period during which Lett begged for more donations, congregations were instructed to send excess funds to HQs, and KHs began to be sold and the funds sent to the society.

  In other words confiscating local KH funds resulted in a $300 million boost in Watchtower assets. That would mean Watchtower gained around $20,000 from each congregation on average. That is a trick you can only pull once, as is selling KHs and assembly halls, because when the local bank balances and KHs are gone they are gone.
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  42

  Watchtower Corp of New York worth over$ 2 billion

  by Diogenesister in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  in the montana sex abuse court case for the first time watchtower has been required by the courts to give a financial statement to the court to assess awards of punitive damages for negligence and (for the first time)malice in non compliance of mandatory reporting laws.. watchtower corp of new york has finances in excess of $2 billion while cc of jw is worth $49 million.

  this doesn't include the pensylvania corp or what overseas branches may have.. pretty healthy bank balance by any standards..

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  slimboyfat

  Okay so the most likely scenario is that the €1.6 billion includes the HQs but not local KHs?

  Is there any way to find out?

  What about assembly hallls, remote translation units, and any other property?
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  42

  Watchtower Corp of New York worth over$ 2 billion

  by Diogenesister in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  in the montana sex abuse court case for the first time watchtower has been required by the courts to give a financial statement to the court to assess awards of punitive damages for negligence and (for the first time)malice in non compliance of mandatory reporting laws.. watchtower corp of new york has finances in excess of $2 billion while cc of jw is worth $49 million.

  this doesn't include the pensylvania corp or what overseas branches may have.. pretty healthy bank balance by any standards..

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  slimboyfat

  Morph, if the $1.6 billion figure does include KHs and all other property assets then they are effectively broke. Because their property in total is certainly worth a lot more than $1.6. So the only way they could have a net value of $1.6 billion is if they have significant debt. If they are in serious debt then it’s an indication that they have little cash on hand. If they have little or no cash in hand then they would need to sell KHs, assembly halls and/or other property to pay for damages awarded against them. At which point the integrity of the organisation itself becomes difficult to maintian.

  A news article states the intention of some to either force Watchtower to change its protection policies or else go broke defending them. This seems a realistic prospect, so it’s interesting to see what they will do, assuming it’s not already too late for them to turn the situation around.
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  42

  Watchtower Corp of New York worth over$ 2 billion

  by Diogenesister in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  in the montana sex abuse court case for the first time watchtower has been required by the courts to give a financial statement to the court to assess awards of punitive damages for negligence and (for the first time)malice in non compliance of mandatory reporting laws.. watchtower corp of new york has finances in excess of $2 billion while cc of jw is worth $49 million.

  this doesn't include the pensylvania corp or what overseas branches may have.. pretty healthy bank balance by any standards..

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  slimboyfat

  I am just going by what they said on the podcast, which was based on what was said in court. If documents were provided to the court with greater detail are they publicly available?

  Yes the problem with the $1.6 billion figure is that it’s either too high or it’s too low.
  

  If it’s the money Watchtower has in cash and other liquid assets that’s far too high a figure.

  If it’s the total value of all assets including KHs then it’s far too low.

  So what are the possibilities?

  That the figure includes HQ and other property, but excludes KHs?

  And/or Watchtower has taken on significant debt which counts against their assets in their net worth? If that’s the case they may be in serious trouble, because even selling KHs may not be enough to cover payouts, and stay operational as an organisation.

  Even if Watchtower don’t end up paying the full $35 million, the news story itself is bound to have a chilling effect on Watchtower donations. And more is surely on the way.
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  42

  Watchtower Corp of New York worth over$ 2 billion

  by Diogenesister in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  in the montana sex abuse court case for the first time watchtower has been required by the courts to give a financial statement to the court to assess awards of punitive damages for negligence and (for the first time)malice in non compliance of mandatory reporting laws.. watchtower corp of new york has finances in excess of $2 billion while cc of jw is worth $49 million.

  this doesn't include the pensylvania corp or what overseas branches may have.. pretty healthy bank balance by any standards..

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  slimboyfat

  The Swiss branch was another one they sold, after 100 years, or something. You can only sell assets once. Once it’s gone it’s gone. Ultimately Watchtower depends on donations from JWs for funding. How can Watchtower ask JWs to pay $30 each for cases like this, on top of everyday running costs? It’s not sustainable whatever way you look at it. Any nest egg they have from property sales is far from inexhaustible. In fact it may not have been all that large, and already near exhausted. They’ve already cut, and begged, and sold assets. So what do they do next?
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  42

  Watchtower Corp of New York worth over$ 2 billion

  by Diogenesister in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  in the montana sex abuse court case for the first time watchtower has been required by the courts to give a financial statement to the court to assess awards of punitive damages for negligence and (for the first time)malice in non compliance of mandatory reporting laws.. watchtower corp of new york has finances in excess of $2 billion while cc of jw is worth $49 million.

  this doesn't include the pensylvania corp or what overseas branches may have.. pretty healthy bank balance by any standards..

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  slimboyfat

  The figure I heard was $1.6 billion from John Redwood in a podcast. He also said this was a net figure and includes the value of property including Kingdom Halls.

  There are 13,500 congregations in the United States. If on average each KH is used by two congregations or slightly more that indicates around 6000 KHs in the United States. How much would each KH be worth? If each KH was worth $266,000 on average then that would account for the whole figure of $1.6 billion with no cash left over.

  This doesn’t even take into account the value of Warwick, Patterson, Wallkill, Assembly Halls, and whatever other property they own.

  Surely their property holdings alone are worth far more than $1.6 billion? So the figure raises more questions than it answers. For one: what other corporations are associated with JWs and what is their net value? Does the Pennsylvania corporation have many assets? It seems like this would be a reasonable question to ask in court if the purpose of the exercise is to ascertain the ability of JWs to pay compensation.

  How much money does Watchtower actually have in the bank? Very little, could be the answer. Unless conspiracy theories about them holding lots of money in other corporations is true.

  But at the end of the day their money comes from donations from JWs. And JWs are not wealthy, or generous with donations. So the idea that Watchtower has a huge secret reserve somewhere does not seem very credible. Where would it have come from?

  If Watchtower does end up paying $35 million for this latest case, that’s equivalent to JWs in the United States putting their hand in their pocket and paying $30 each, for this one case alone.

  And some people still argue they are not in financial difficulty?
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  25

  Thought Provoking Question to a JW?

  by Solzhenitsyn in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  did jesus ever utter the name jehovah?.

  and if he didn't what are the implications?

  nwt answers don't count but feel free to use the kingdom interlinear.

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  slimboyfat

  Jesus likely used the form of the divine name Yaho, which was common among Jews in his day.

  This version of the divine name was used in the LXX.

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4Q120

  It occurs in name lists (onomastica) used by Jews and later Christians.

  Classical authors Diodorus and Varro said the Jews called their God Yaho.

  Origen used the name Yaho in his commentary on John.

  There are indications that some Jews avoided using God’s name in the first century, but the evidence is that this only became standard later.

  See Frank Shaw’s book reviewed here by Anthony Meyer.

  http://www.jhsonline.org/reviews/reviews_new/review763.htm
  
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  55

  * 2018 Mergers and changes to UK congregations *

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a document containing a list of all congregations in the uk.

  periodically i go through the links and check to see if they're still registered as charities and if the location of the congregation is the same.. instead of posting a large list of changes all at once, i will be adding each change that i find in a new reply to this thread.. please check back here periodically.. truthseeker.

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  slimboyfat

  Thanks for the info. Wasn’t there a Stevenston congregation at one time, as well as Kilbirnie?

  So there’s no KH in the three towns or Kilbirnie?

  Can you list any congregations/KHs in Ayrshire that have closed in the past 20 years or so?
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  17

  JWs using 'apostate' phraseology?

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've mentioned before how a regular pioneer used the phrases "tight-pants tony" and "don't drink the kool-aid".

  well the other week, a different regular pioneer, and elderly one in fact, was talking about the simplified watchtower being discontinued and the normal one replacing it, and she said 'i guess they're just gonna dumb-down everything'.

  then too even the org itself used the words "fade" and "shun" in recent articles, words that were previously shied away from.. anybody here experienced something similar, a seeming pimi saying something that makes you wonder if they've been sneaking ex-jw 'spiritual food' on the side?.

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  slimboyfat

  The very fact that JW website now uses the word “shun” in relation to DFing. I can’t recall that was a JW term in that context before apostates popularised it.

  In fact, the fact that JWs are adopting apostate terminology in relation to shunning seems to me to be a hopeful sign that they are on a journey toward abandoning the practice.
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  55

  * 2018 Mergers and changes to UK congregations *

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a document containing a list of all congregations in the uk.

  periodically i go through the links and check to see if they're still registered as charities and if the location of the congregation is the same.. instead of posting a large list of changes all at once, i will be adding each change that i find in a new reply to this thread.. please check back here periodically.. truthseeker.

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  slimboyfat

  That’s excellent, any information on Scotland?

  From what I can tell: Glenrothes seems to have merged two congregations into one in the last year or two.

  There is no longer a congregation in Ardrishaig.

  Stevenston congregation looks like it is gone, replaced by Kilbirnie, but located in Stevenston! There must be a story there.

  Further back: weren’t there more congregations in Ayr and Perth at one time? And wasn’t there a congregation in Ardossan or Saltcoats?