Posts by slimboyfat

31

The downfall of the Governing Body

by john.prestor in

in a book i read a while back by the sociologist randall collins he says truly powerful people don't get angry because they get what they want in other ways, and he shows a picture of two runners where the one who's losing looks at the girl that passes her rather than ahead at the finish line, guess she doesn't wanna win the race after all.

i want to apply these to the governing body and their actions, the pattern of their actions, in printing all the hateful rhetoric against people like us and why l'm pretty sure, pretty damn confident in fact, it's all downhill from here... thanks to them and them alone.. the moment you let somebody get in your head and let them stay there they beat you, they win, they establish power, we got in their heads, they know we present a threat to them, we won't shut up, we're more brazen than we used to be, we're in the news, we're on tv, we're online we're at conventions we're in the kingdom halls, hell we're just about everywhere.

yeah, we don't have this completely down yet, sometimes we come on too strong or do something stupid, and i'm pointing the finger at myself here too, but for the most part we know how to fight this battle: we drag them into the light when they wanna hide in the dark like jackals lurking in the woods sneaking up on weak and wounded deer.

slimboyfat

Indeed, very true. When Gary Breaux came out and said they would never change their rules because of “apostate” pressure, it was clear they have lost it. It’s all over bar the shouting.

https://youtu.be/sdqlijLNpNE

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At 1.4% growth the last 2 years, it's safe to say, jw.org and cart witnessing is an abject failure!

by nowwhat? in

so much for jehovah blessing this new arrangement.

they are barely keeping up with the birthrate!

so basically the org spent millions of dollars on their website and broadcasting so the only growth they are still getting comes from born ins and illiterate and superstitious folks from africa.

slimboyfat

My take on the cart witnessing was that this was a brainchild of a GB member , started in New York and although the tangible results were negligible , it gave a good impression of activity to see JWs outside train stations & in high footfall traffic areas , so the GB decided to run with it.

That’s pretty much their own account of how it came about. There was a video about it shown at the meeting a few moths ago. It said that carts/metropolitan witnessing started as a special campaign in France, the GB decided to copy it in New York, they liked it and rolled it out across the world. They stopped using tables because carts are easier to transport.

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The pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton according to Gérard Gertoux

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

some time ago i stumbled across a book by french author gerard gertoux, about the pronunciation of the tetragrammaton.

the book was also published in english (cf.

the author's site at http://gertoux.online.fr/divinename/) .

slimboyfat

The fact is the old Hebrew language had no vowels that’s why they switched to Aromaic.

Yeah but some speculate the switch might have had an olfactory cause as well.

The above quoted post got a thumbs up from someone! Whereas Earnest’s factual responses got none. There is no justice in this world! (I would have given Earnest a thumb up but for some reason the thumbs buttons don’t work for me)

I can’t say I’m terribly in favour of the use of “maggot” for Gerard Gertoux either, as on the previous page. What is that all about?

The quality of discussions these days hovers between depressing and hilarious.

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Joke Sharing Thread

by Vanderhoven7 in

got a good joke or two?

why not share them.

here is a fun one.. retirement can be fun.

slimboyfat

Jokes can have an ideological agenda, but they should at least be funny to start with. I find it interesting that sarcastic “jokes” from a certain side of the political spectrum often lack this basic sense of humour.

I said to the doctor: some days I feel like Donald Duck and some days I feel like Mickey Mouse.

The doctor said: how long have you been having these Disney spells?

11

Partial rough draft

by vienne in

i've posted a partial rough draft of my introductory essay for separate identity, volume 2. it is a work in progress and will change.

it has upset some watchtower adherents who read our history blog.

read it please and tell me if i've been unfair to the watchtower.

slimboyfat

I agree chronological speculation is widspread, not confined to Adventism.

But these are the basic facts are they not:

1. Russell initially opposed chronological speculation.

2. Russell met Barbour and was persuaded to give chronology another look.

3. Thereafter chronology has been central to Russell and JW teaching.

If those facts are true, how can we deny that Adventism impacted Watchtower teaching?

61

2018 Service Year Report - Released on jw.org

by Drearyweather in

2018 service year report of jehovah’s witnesses worldwide.

see details of the global preaching work of jehovah’s witnesses from september 2017 to august 2018.. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/2018-service-year-report/.

average publishers preaching each month: 8,360,594 (2017 - 8,248,982).

slimboyfat

Steve, for most churches any growth at all would be something to crow about. The fact that JWs have managed even modest growth, in rapidly secularising societies, such as the UK is quite remarkable.

A few Pentecostal groups have grown in the UK, but these are churches that consist almost entirely of immigrants, largely from Africa and the Caribbean. Their numbers have been boosted, not by making converts in the UK, but by new arrivals from more religious countries. This does not count as endogenous growth.

Plus it is telling that the older Pentecostal groups, which do no tend to attract new immigrants, such as Assemblies of God and Elim have declined as well.

As for SDAs, my personal (and pretty extensive) experience of the church in Scotland is that they are 90% immigrants, mostly from Africa and the Caribbean, and some from Asia and Eastern Europe, with fewer than 10% born in the UK. They number around 1000 in Scotland and they are not increasing at the moment.

From what I remember the SDA church in Australia and New Zealand also largely consists of new arrivals from the Pacific islands, Africa and elsewhere. They are not converting numbers of outsiders to the church.

Incidentally JW growth in the UK in recent years relied to some extent the arrival of immigrants - from Poland in particular. The difference is that immigrants only form a minority of JWs in the UK.

JWs have simply performed better at holding back the tide of secularisation than other Christian groups. Whether that’s “something to crow about” we can debate. On the one hand they are not doing as well as they used to, or as well as some might expect of God’s endtime messengers. But they are clearly doing better than most other Christian groups in the same hostile secular environment.

11

Partial rough draft

by vienne in

i've posted a partial rough draft of my introductory essay for separate identity, volume 2. it is a work in progress and will change.

it has upset some watchtower adherents who read our history blog.

read it please and tell me if i've been unfair to the watchtower.

slimboyfat

Thanks, very interesting. You make good points about secrecy and Watchtower not really tolerating, much less encouraging deep research by members or outsiders.

I tend to agree that their reluctance to engage with the early history is because they know so little about it themselves. It’s not so much that they want to promote a particular view of early characters or events, it’s that they just want to leave it alone. They may be suspicous of people who know a lot about the early history, not because there is anything they specifically wish to hide, but because their lack of knowledge leaves them exposed, should inconvenient facts emerge.

On Watchtower referencing and scholarship, I think one of the better researched and presented publications is the divine name brochure. It doesn’t have footnotes, but it does contain fairly trasparent and useable references in the text itself.

http://da-ip.getmyip.com/PDF/Old%20Publications/1980-1999/1984,%202006%20-%20The%20Divine%20Name%20That%20Will%20Endure%20Forever%20-%20brochure.pdf

On the issue of Adventist roots, I think there are a few things going on. There are those who make the basic mistake of thinking Russell broke away from an Adventist group, or worse from the Seventh Day Adventists. That’s just wrong. And then there are others who lazily think that ideas, such as the view sometimes called “soul sleep”, must have come from Adventists. But many non-Adventists shared this perspective.

However one thing from Adventist remains. It does seem to be the case that Russell initially opposed the popular Adventist idea that accurate endtime chronology could be derived from scripture. Russell’s view on this issue seems to have changed as a result of his meeting with long-time Adventist Nelson Barbour, and from that time forward Russell taught that reliable endtime chronology could be derived from the Bible. It remains a key part of JW teaching to this day. So to the extent that Russell was persuaded by Barbour to ‘give chronology another look’ and subsequently promote the use of endtime chronology, I think it is fair to say that Russell, and JWs have been influenced, via Barbour, by the Adventist movement in this crucial respect.

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