slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  27

  Irán attacks....

  by mikeflood in

  1. social
  2. current

  just a moment ago irán started to attack israel, guess they're gonna end in ruins because israel has a way better army than other country in the region and the support of the us....hope the gas prices don't increase too much.... wonder how the borg gonna spin it..

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  slimboyfat

  58% in Britain want to end arms sales to Israel compared with only 18% who want to continue.

  https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2024/04/04/8aa72/1
  
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  27

  Quality of jw.org translation?

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  someone asked the following question to an artificial intelligence (ai) website:.

  how does the most translated website ensure accuracy of translations?.

  answer: .

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  slimboyfat

  How fast you learn a language varies dramatically based on ability and motivation. There are plenty of indications that Fred Franz had ability and was highly motivated. He was known to be a language geek. He knew German from childhood, he attended a Spanish congregation and gave talks in Spanish and other languages. He continued to study Greek while Watchtower editor at the headquarters from 1928 onwards as evidenced by references to scholarly works in the literature. That’s not to say he was at a level comparable with leading scholars. But was he good enough to complete translation of the NWT? It seems so, because he did complete the NWT. Scholars who reviewed the translation when it was published offered criticisms of its wooden English and alleged bias in certain passages, but didn’t question that the translator knew enough to complete the translation. For example he adopted some views about how Hebrew aspects should be translated that have not aged well. That might be viewed as a mistake based on adoption of ideas floating around at the time, but it is also evidence that he knew enough about the language to adopt such a position in the first place.

  It is ‘a’ translation mostly borrowed from extant English translations.

  Which translations did it borrow from? If that was the case it would be easy to prove, especially with modern plagiarism software and AI. Have you ever done this, or know of it being done with the NWT?

  Fred Franz’s style was pretty unique, some would say uniquely bad, but for better or worse I think his translation was clearly his own effort, completed in a serious manner involving a lot of hard work. It took him around 13 years to complete his translation of the entire Bible. The result is a Bible translation one might expect from someone who had some formal training in Greek, who had a lot of dedication and spent a lot of time on the task, and who worked outside the Trinitarian tradition that has influenced Bible translation since the 4th century. Trinitarians obviously hate it because it doesn’t follow the orthodox line, but that doesn’t mean Franz wasn’t competent in Bible languages. Non Trinitarian scholars such as Jason BeDuhn and Benjamin Kedar have complimented the NWT. Some Trinitarian scholars have acknowledged that the NWT is a competent translation even if they accuse it of bias.
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  86

  Prediction: no more changes for a long while

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i’ve noticed a pattern where things don’t go the way i expect them to go and/or whenever i realise there is a trend and, i mentally adjust for the idea that the trend will continue, the trend stops in its tracks.

  so on that basis, and given many people, including myself, and active jws, have been asking ‘what changes will the governing body make next?’ perhaps the (disappointing) answer is: ‘nothing much for a while to come’.

  maybe they’ve made the changes they want for now, and will wait a while and see how it’s received.

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  slimboyfat

  Like many churches that consist of baby boomers now dying off, Watchtower is probably financially secure on the basis of financial legacies of property owning boomers for the foreseeable future.

  I know of a number of churches that are running out of people but have enough money through legacies to continue catering to very low numbers of attenders - like ten or fewer worshippers on a Sunday - and can afford to employ a minister and maintain a large building. Many churches are struggling and closing too, for financial reasons, but they are often down to a handful of attenders before they give up.
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  27

  Quality of jw.org translation?

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  someone asked the following question to an artificial intelligence (ai) website:.

  how does the most translated website ensure accuracy of translations?.

  answer: .

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  slimboyfat

  Fred Franz only took one 2hr. survey course in koine greek (biblical greek) at the university of cincnnati . The other greek he studied was modern greek.

  Surely that is classical Greek, not modern Greek??? Two years classical Greek seems good training for understanding the NT. A number of scholars of classical Greek have produced acclaimed translations of the NT. Some might argue it’s a better way into the NT text than a specific course on NT Greek with all the theological bias that may entail.
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  27

  Quality of jw.org translation?

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  someone asked the following question to an artificial intelligence (ai) website:.

  how does the most translated website ensure accuracy of translations?.

  answer: .

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  slimboyfat

  Even FF had no formal training in Hebrew or Greek, he said so in Court.

  Fred Franz studied Greek for two years at Cincinnati University. It’s not nothing.

  He was asked to translate a verse in English into Hebrew in court, which he declined. There is debate over whether this is a relevant or fair test of Hebrew knowledge. He was not asked to translate Greek.

  He was self taught in Hebrew. Raymond Franz said he observed Fred Franz reading Hebrew, which is against-the-grain testimony that he could understand the text.

  Personally I think that Fred Franz must have been competent in Greek and Hebrew to produce the NWT. Other explanations are more convoluted than the straight forward one.
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  27

  Quality of jw.org translation?

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  someone asked the following question to an artificial intelligence (ai) website:.

  how does the most translated website ensure accuracy of translations?.

  answer: .

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  slimboyfat

  Those are fascinating observation PetrW. Thanks!

  I remember there was some controversy over the Norwegian NWT that translated Jeremiah 29:10 as “seventy years for Babylon” rather than “seventy years at Babylon”, as in the English NWT, thus, in the view of some, undermining the JW interpretation of the 70 years captivity, and therefore 607 BCE, and consequently 1914 CE. Presumably this was unintentional but, some argued, was embarrassing for Furuli and others who relied on the English translation of Jeremiah 29:10 as part of their defence of JW chronology.
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  27

  Quality of jw.org translation?

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  someone asked the following question to an artificial intelligence (ai) website:.

  how does the most translated website ensure accuracy of translations?.

  answer: .

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  slimboyfat

  Who else would put something out there re: translation of WTS in-house pubs except the organization itself?

  careful, I think there has been more, but this is all I can find specifically on the subject at the moment, and it’s not readily accessible online beyond a summary, as far as I can make out:

  Narayana, D. B. (2022). Equivalence and Readability in the Indonesian Translation of the History and Bible Section in Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Official Website: A Study of Equivalence and Readability (Doctoral dissertation, Universitas Sanata Dharma Yogyakarta).

  https://repository.usd.ac.id/43506/1/184214129.pdf
  

  The work of Andrea Rota is also probably relevant in places.

  Rota, A. (2019). Religion, Media, and Joint Commitment. Online-Heidelberg Journal of Religions on the Internet, 14, 79-107.

  https://heiup.uni-heidelberg.de/journals/index.php/religions/article/download/23949/17671

  Rota, A. (2022). (Re) Connecting Analytic Philosophy and Empirical Research: The Example of Ritual Speech Acts and Religious Collectivities. Sophia, 1-14.

  https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11841-021-00899-5

  Rota, A. (2023). Jehovah Online: Magazines in the New Media Landscape of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Switzerland and Germany. In Protestant Periodicals in Transition (pp. 75-97). Brill.

  Rota, A. (2023). Collective intentionality and the study of religion: social ontology and empirical research (p. 280). Bloomsbury Academic.
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
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  28

  Waiting On Jehovah First Mentioned?

  by Ron.W. in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  yes, waiting on jehovah for him to handle a problem/ doctrine etc.. when did the jw's first start saying that?

  they've been saying it as long as i can remember.. what scriptures do they trot out to back that teaching up?

  ?.

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  slimboyfat

  And often quoted to “show a waiting attitude”.

  Micah 7:7

  But as for me, it is for Jehovah that I shall keep on the lookout. I will show a waiting attitude for the God of my salvation. My God will hear me.
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  30

  How many different "rules" do Jehovah's Witnesses have to obey? Can you count them?

  by Balaamsass2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  all the big changes for jws since this last fall brought me back to this site, and got me and the wife talking.

  just how many things were we not allowed to do growing up as jehovah's witnesses?

  we were so used to all the rules, customs, and traditions, that we became used to them.. one site i found claims there are 141 unique rules!!

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  slimboyfat

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/84969/victim-baptism-fascist-were-you
  
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  30

  How many different "rules" do Jehovah's Witnesses have to obey? Can you count them?

  by Balaamsass2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  all the big changes for jws since this last fall brought me back to this site, and got me and the wife talking.

  just how many things were we not allowed to do growing up as jehovah's witnesses?

  we were so used to all the rules, customs, and traditions, that we became used to them.. one site i found claims there are 141 unique rules!!

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  slimboyfat

  Far too many to count, if you include reminders and general guidance, such as whether couples should hold hands during prayer, whether a wife can pray aloud in front of her husband at home, whether you can hold seats for friends at conventions, how long to continue a Bible Study that doesn’t progress, how much toilet paper you should use in the Kingdom Hall, whether baptism counts if your toe sticks out, whether you should go to meetings while on holiday, whether sisters can do the accounts and other tasks for the congregation, and on and on. There have been literally hundreds of specific instructions issued over the years through the Watchtower, Kingdom Ministry, and now videos, on all aspects of life in and out the Kingdom Hall. It would be a colossal task attempting to list and enumerate them all.