slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

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  slimboyfat

  Practically the only churches that are increasing in Europe are immigrant churches. Even if you focus on those few that are growing slightly I find it disingenuous. The fact is that many tens of millions have stopped going to church all over Europe. Finding a few isolated churches that mainly consist of new arrivals from Nigeria and Ghana that have grown by a few thousand are small by comparison and don’t contradict the overall trend.

  This is all documented in Field’s book about Britain in particlar. The big churches have lost millions of members: Anglican, Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian. A few small Pentecostal churches have grown slightly. It’s like losing a wallet with £100 but looking on the bright side that you found a 50 pence on pavement. The overall trend is clear.
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  406

  Is Jesus the Creator?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  that's what the word says.

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  colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

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  slimboyfat

  The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct persons

  The Bible says that the Father is the “one God”, (1 Corinthians 8.6) not “one distinct person of God”. That’s a later formulation that tries to obscure the fact the Trinity contradicts what the Bible says. The Bible doesn’t say anything about God consisting of different “persons”. In fact it assumes and sometimes explicitly states the opposite.

  Galatians 3.20 But a go-between is not needed when only one person is involved; and God is one.
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  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

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  slimboyfat

  No, churches are in rapid decline in Europe and have been for decades. Religious decline in the Europe is one of the most dramatic and extensively documented social phenomena in the modern world. You could gather more convincing evidence that bigs are beginning to fly than Christian churches are growing in Europe. (I base these comments on extensive reading of the academic literature for decades and visiting literally hundreds of different churches in dozens of different denominations.)

  Among the many books on this trend, some of the best work is by Clive Field, Steve Bruce, Callum Brown, and Ronal Inglehart .

  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Counting-Religion-Britain-1970-2020-Secularization/dp/0192849328/

  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Religion-Demographic-Revolution-Secularisation-Religious/dp/1843837927/

  https://www.amazon.co.uk/God-Dead-Secularization-Religion-Modern/dp/0631232753/
  

  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Religions-Sudden-Decline-Whats-Causing/dp/0197547044/
  
• 
  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

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  2. 
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  slimboyfat

  Poland seems to be one of the major developed countries bucking the trend, with the number still falling at -1%.

  But also notice that the population of Poland is itself declining, and the ratio of JWs to the population has improved over the years. For example the ratio was 341 in 2021 and is down to 328 in 2024. This is a result of population decline in Poland rather than JW growth. The situation is similar in other East European countries with declining populations as well in Italy, Japan and Korea.
  

  It will indeed be interesting to see if this is a temporary boost caused by changes to reporting, and if it drops back in 2024-25 and 2025-26 service years.

  
  Yeah, it’s difficult to make valid comparisons when they keep changing the definitions all the time. Perhaps they’ll stop publishing statistics altogether at some point. In the meantime I still think that number of congregations is one of the most stable and meaningful indicators of growth or decline and by that measure JWs have declined over the past 10 years with a slight recovery in the last couple of years.
  
  
• 
  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

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  slimboyfat

  The census is a level playing field. Each religion has its own internal measures of membership, but censuses simply ask what each person identifies as.

  So for example, when the Mormons claimed 1.1 millions members Brazil in 2010, and yet only 226,000 identified themselves as Mormons in the census, it seems fair to conclude that Mormons in some real meaningful sense overestimate their membership.
  

  At the same time, when Jehovah’s Witnesses claimed 700,000 members in Brazil in 2010, and yet nearly 1.4 million identified themselves as members in the census, it also seems fair to conclude that in a real meaningful sense Jehovah’s Witnesses underestimate their membership.

  So there really is a lot of empirical data to support JW figures and to show that they underestimate their membership compared with other groups.

  See this chart of census results compared with official memberships.

  
  
• 
  406

  Is Jesus the Creator?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  that's what the word says.

  .

  colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

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  slimboyfat

  So, what kind of evidence would it take for you to conclude the deity of Christ

  That’s easy. If the Bible didn’t say that Jesus is taught by someone else, exalted by someone else, given life by someone else, and given power by someone else, then it might be worth investigating further. Given all those things are said of Jesus, and given that none of those things could ever be said of an almighty God, it is overwhelmingly clear that Jesus is different than and subject to almighty God.
• 
  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

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  2. 
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  slimboyfat

  From my observation Zoom means that fewer people attend the KH now, but that more people attend overall if you count Zoom. So, for example, if a congregation had 100 before the pandemic, now there are about 80 in the KH and about 40 on Zoom. Is that an increase or a decrease? Because it works both ways. There are some people who would have come into the KH who no longer do. There are others who attend on Zoom now who didn’t attend before Zoom.
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  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

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  2. 
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  slimboyfat

  There may be mistakes and occasional inflated numbers at a local level. I am sure there are. But the overwhelming evidence from decades of census results in various countries is that JW numbers are accurate, or in fact understated compared with the published figures of other religious groups.
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  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  slimboyfat

  Okay, apparently it happened November last year! And was announced at the annual meeting. I guess I’ve not been paying attention!

  So yeah, all these figures are massively impacted by that change. We need to wait to next year to see what the real ongoing rate of growth is.

  Having said that, baptisms, Memorial attendance, and congregation numbers are all up. None of those figures are due to the change in reporting time.
• 
  88

  Annual Report

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the latest report is now available for download on our favourite website!.

  george.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  slimboyfat

  No I think I came before that in a letter, because it struck me as odd that it seemed to be rushed out, as if they couldn’t even wait a few weeks until the end of the service year for some reason. 🤔