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slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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3083
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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72
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, whatâs the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, itâs a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
The reason 1 Tim 2.5 shows Jesus is not God is because it says there is âone Godâ and that Jesus is the mediator for that âone Godâ and humans. In any normal understanding of language, the world and anything, this means that Jesus, whoever he is, is someone other than the âone Godâ, and the humans he is mediator for. If I say that Jack took a message between Toby and Ryan we know next to nothing about Jack, but what we do know with absolute certainty is that Jack is neither Toby nor Ryan, heâs somebody else.
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Watchtower SlangJamaican Patois: Gods son came fe mash up the worldđ
by Diogenesister inđ¤Śââď¸this 25 million different languages thing is getting ridiculous.
this link is hilarious!
they've only gone and translated into jamaican patois and boy this isn't just translation, they're literally using slang....what next?
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slimboyfat
Ah so the flag is on the cover of an outside Bible translation. That makes sense. I guess all decisions about language are âpoliticalâ, you canât get away from that. But for people who appreciate having Watchtower literature in their everyday language it is a good move to provide it. Others who donât appreciate it donât need to use it and can continue using English. If some people feel diminished or politically wrong footed because other people now have the freedom to make a different language choice than they would make (to use creole WT literature) then thatâs a pretty self-centred attitude and I wouldnât worry about such people.
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The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, whatâs the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, itâs a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
I donât know how any of that refutes what 1 Tim 2.5 plainly says: there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ. Jesus is therefore distinguished from the one God. This is totally incompatible with the Trinity. I know in many discussions there is merit on both sides and reasonable argument can be had. But I donât think this is such as case. If it wasnât for centuries of dogma, the prestige of the church, and the stigmatisation of JW theology as heretical, I donât think the discussion would even get off the ground. The Bible tells us dozens of times that Jesus is separate from and distinguished from God. Dealing with the inventive ways Trinitarians come up with discounting each and every one is simply a waste of time.
Good video on some of the places Jesus said he wasnât God here.
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Watchtower SlangJamaican Patois: Gods son came fe mash up the worldđ
by Diogenesister inđ¤Śââď¸this 25 million different languages thing is getting ridiculous.
this link is hilarious!
they've only gone and translated into jamaican patois and boy this isn't just translation, they're literally using slang....what next?
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slimboyfat
I think this is fantastic and inclusive and I donât see a thing wrong with it. Do other religious groups produce literature in Jamaican patois, I wonder? If not, then even more kudos to Watchtower for doing this.
Seems a bit odd to include the flag, though. Do they do this for other countries?
I wish theyâd produce British English spelling versions of literature and the NWT too, but maybe thatâs not a priority.
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3083
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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slimboyfat
Mostly accurate, but initially she says his Patron account funded âthings like his research, travel, and legal battles against Watchtowerâ. Did he ever even claim the money was used for âlegal battlesâ or is she just adding this as fluff? Even if he somewhere claimed it, she shouldnât be naive to repeat such an obvious falsehood. Iâd be astonished if a single penny was ever spent on any such thing.
Interesting that she says she watched all his videos back in the day but she only recently found out about the scandal. I guess that there are still fans who have no idea.
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72
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, whatâs the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, itâs a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
Well thereâs still no Trinity in the Bible but now youâve shown a couple of complicated diagrams that totally makes it true. đ¤
On 1 Tim 2.5 you treat Godness and humanness as like two sticky substances and Jesus somehow needs to be dipped in both to be a mediator who partakes in both. In reality thatâs later philosophy talking, nothing to do with what the Bible says. What the Bible says is that there is one God and one mediator between God and humans, that is the man Jesus Christ. Notice it doesnât say the God-man Jesus, and notice it doesnât say between divinity and humanity. It says one man between the one God and humans. Jesus is neither the one God nor is he a sinful human. He is the one perfect human who can act as the bridge or mediator between God and sinful humans. Trinitarians claim that Jesus, on the basis of a philosophical notion of essences, must be part of both sides. In reality a mediator acts âbetweenâ two parties and is not part of either, as Paul points out in Gal 3.20
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72
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, whatâs the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, itâs a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
Some JW teachings thatâs no doubt true, Phizzy. However the view of Jesus as distinct and subordinate to God is so clear I think itâs the straightforward reading. How anyone can read passages like 1 Tim 2.5 and still conclude God is a trinity is the true mystery.
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus
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72
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, whatâs the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, itâs a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
I think the Bible is entirely clear that Jesus was created by God and is distinct from and subject to God. Thatâs what Christians believed until the fourth century. If you handed the Bible to somebody afresh without any history of dogma attached there is no way they would ever come up with a Trinitarian God of three coequal persons. Itâs a peculiar artefact of the particular philosophical and political interactions of fourth century Christianity.
The Bible explicitly says that God is one. (Gal 3.20)
It explicitly says that Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. (Col 1.15)
It explicitly says that Jesus is distinct from and subject to God. (1 Cor 11.3 and dozens of other verses)
There are no verses anywhere that say God consists of three coequal and coeternal persons, nothing even close to it.
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72
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, whatâs the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, itâs a willingness that the other should be.
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slimboyfat
Eusebius of Caesarea argued similarly:
But the Father precedes the Son, and has preceded Him in existence, inasmuch as He alone is unbegotten. The One, perfect in Himself and first in order as Father, and the cause of the Son's existence, receives nothing towards the completeness of His Godhead from the Son: the Other, as a Son begotten of Him that caused His being, came second to Him, Whose Son He is, receiving from the Father both His Being, and the character of His Being .