I don't even look at that as soley a religious problem but as a constitutional infringement on several levels. It’s like forcing Quakers to take up arms or sanctioning prayer in school. I know those are separate issues. But, it’s the idea of infringement that they have in common. It even involves speech rights, since speech is not always spoken while in the process of expressing your views. The teacher was out-of-line.
Posts by Etude
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15Florida teacher suspended over [JW] kids Pledge of Allegiance
by AndersonsInfo inhttp://www.azcentral.com/news/free/20131106florida-teacher-suspended-over-kids-pledge-allegiance.html?odyssey=obnetwork.
associated presswed nov 6, 2013 3:34 pmspring hill, fla. a florida school district has suspended a teacher after requiring a fourth grade jehovahs witness to participate in the pledge of allegiance.. the tampa tribune (http://bit.ly/1arwmom) reports that the hernando county school board recently concluded an investigation.. the student, who is jehovahs witness and prohibited by the religion from worshiping objects, refused on religious grounds, the investigation found.. officials said teacher anne daigle-mcdonald twice placed the students hand over his heart when the class recited the pledge.. the student told mcdonald during the incident that jehovahs witnesses do not worship objects, and that he stood during the pledge of allegiance out of respect for the country, but was not permitted by his religion to place his hand over his heart, according to the investigation.. after the student informed mcdonald of this, mcdonald went to the front of the class and said, if you dont want to say the pledge, you still have to put your hand on your heart and if you dont want to do that, you should move out of the country, according to the report.. the report also shows mcdonald said something about there not being a religion that prohibits doing the pledge, according to the investigation.. the district says that mcdonald violated a host of state education rules, professional conduct principles and the students right to free speech and freedom of religion.
several other students in the class corroborated the allegations, according to the investigation.. mcdonald was removed from student contact, and placed on alternative assignment on sept. 12.. while speaking to administrators at the school on that date, mcdonald said she thought the religion applied only to holidays, but said she did not attempt to contact the students parents for clarification, according to the report.. the investigation showed that she also said she didnt think it was good practice to regularly place hands on students, and that she feels strongly as a citizen of the united states that one should show respect to the flag.. superintendent lori romano ordered mcdonald be suspended five days without pay, reported the incident to florida department of education and ordered mcdonald provide proof of completion of diversity training..
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Introduction
by Pyramid God ini'm somewhat new here, even though i've posted a few times, so i decided it was time i properly introduced myself.
i've been lurking for several months.... .
i was born into the jw and served for 21 years.
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Etude
Welcome Pyramid God. I hope that whatever happens you're able to maintain a decent relationship with your family. Being cut off and shunned can be a difficult thing. Family helps. At the same time, hang in there and maybe you'll be able to influence them. You never know.
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148
Well it is time for me to say GOODBYE!!!
by mouthy init has been nice talking with you.but i seem to upset a few because of my faith.. so have a great christmas.... & be good, i wont be here to send you to your rooms .
i have grown close to many of you.... if i have ever said anything to hurt you sorry!!!!.
when i kick the bucket i am sure "mary" who ssometimes post will let you know.. mouthy grace gough.
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Etude
I've been on and off here for over a decade, mostly because I've been busy. Still, I can't recall anyone being offended by your faith. I don't have time to look up any of our past exchanges. But if there was anything you might construe from me or anyone else, that is no reason to leave. You're a valuable person because you have something to say, even if others don't agree. That's the nature of this place. We discuss, argue, agree, disagree, etc, etc. Think of it this way: whatever you say can either be inspirational for someone or a challenge to others. Either way, it's all good.
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113
Elders receive a report that I am openly displaying false religious symbol
by confusedandalone inwhen you look at the image above what do you see?
a sneaker or an outward display that i am now following after another religious group?.
well yesterday i had a 10 minute conversation with an elder who finally got the balls to call me.
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Etude
Baahahah! That's not entirely on point but it's funny as hell. I would have said: "...when studied by Witnesses..."
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113
Elders receive a report that I am openly displaying false religious symbol
by confusedandalone inwhen you look at the image above what do you see?
a sneaker or an outward display that i am now following after another religious group?.
well yesterday i had a 10 minute conversation with an elder who finally got the balls to call me.
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Etude
The situation you describe, confusedandalone, is typical of the type or reasoning that the cult breeds. It’s possible that HQ could reject the issue as banal and the elders have to stop this line of assault. But if they’re really after you, they could justify it with other things. It won’t change their means of justification. When I wrote to them about the inconsistency between the Malawi party card issue and the Mexican military card brothers had to carry, their lack of response told me volumes.
While at Bethel in the mid 70s, they would not iron your blue jeans. Apparently, Knorr felt that all the gays in Brooklyn Heights wore jeans and did not want to encourage bethelites to look the same. However, if you paid the dry cleaners, they would press them for you. When I moved to the Farm in Wallkill, I tried to get my blue jeans pressed. They refused. When I asked why they said that in Brooklyn the view is they do not press blue jeans at the laundry and they would follow suit. I replied that in Brooklyn they will press them for you at the dry cleaners if you pay. Their answer was: “Well, we’re not Brooklyn.” I took this up to the home servant (whose name I can’t recall). He was a stocky man with salt-pepper hair and walked with a limp from a knee injury or deformity. Regardless, this dude was a black hole when it came to logic.
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Political correctness. What is it to you?
by Hortenzie ini see it as a form of discrimination against non mainstream ideas and opinions.
that's why i don't understand why so many hold it as of a great value.
what do you think?.
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Etude
I guess that's why there's a grammatical part of speech called "synonym". It means that we use different words, or in this case a phrase or expression, in order to mean the same thing. I don't differentiate between being politically correct and being sensitive to others in certain contexts. I say "certain contexts" because I don't think it's always beneficial to be politically correct of "kill" someone with kindness if that will help keep them in ignorance about an issue or unduly protected them from the truth. Sometimes, you just have to tell it like it is.
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Questions During Meetings...Grounds for Suspicion?
by Cold Steel inwith so many meetings during the week, it seems like the opportunity to raise questions would be rich.
i just wondered how probing questions are handled in most kingdom halls.
are they taken as an indication of an inquisitive mind or a potential source of stumbling for weak members?
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Etude
When I was at Bethel and attended the mini-Gilead class for "new boys", the instructor (a smug looking, slightly-condescending dude) stated that we were free to ask questions and let the Bible answer them. However, we were not supposed to use hypothetical situations. Eventually, the subject came up regarding what the Bible states on remarriage (meaning it can only be done if the partner dies or commits adultery). The implication is that a marriage outside of those two conditions would be invalid in the eyes of Jehovah.
I raised my hand and asked: "What if a couple that was married discovered that they were fleshly brother and sister? Would they have to separate? Would their marriage be invalid in the eyes of Jehovah after being consummated? What would be their standing?" With his smug look peering down at me, he reminded me that my question was out of line because I was told not to use hypothetical situations. I stated that it was not a hypothetical but based on a newspaper article I had read about two people who been separated and adopted at birth and later, after marrying, found out about each other. All remember was the frustrated sigh he let out. I don't remember his answer because he really didn't answer. He essentially dismissed my inquiry and went on to other things. I remember pointing this out to my roommate who was also attending the class.
That was the beginning of my awareness regarding how difficult questions are handled. From that point on, I became cautious about what to ask and even more cautious about the responses and reactions I got. I gotta give that guy (the instructor) credit. He really knew how to dismiss my inquiry. I guess it had happened to him before.
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15
How long will it be
by joe134cd injust wanting estimations on "how long do you think it will be before the society allows internet witnessing as another avenue of preaching".
i feel it will only be a matter of time.
they have to do something to counteract all the negative stuff.
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Etude
Whether they officially allow it or not, it can still count. It would be just like "incidental" witnessing, like when you speak to a co-worker or somebody on the bus. If a publisher wants to use time on the Internet, s/he just has to report it. I don't see a problem there.
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What Are The Expectations...Now??
by Cold Steel inthe society has been teaching that you-know-what is right around the corner for so long that it's lost all credibility.
what are the expecations like now?
do people still expect it to happen very soon, or are more people planning on things like higher education?
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Etude
I've been out of it for so long, I hardly know anyone that's in to have an idea of urgency on their part. However, up until a few years ago, my nephew still believed that the end was near. I started thinking that the tactic was succesful because they keep convincing a new generation the end is imminent by using certain current events to show how they "fulfill" profecy (an old tactic), while carefully omitting events that would contradict that.
I recently heard someone comment that they read some figures showing that, in spite of the Iranq and Afghanistan conflicts, war is on a decline now compared to past years. That would go against the JW conventional thinking, but it won't stop them. They're good at slicing and dicing citations and statements to their benefit to convince the gullible.
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Something NEW is happening with Jehovah's Witnesses on the internet
by Watchtower-Free indramatic growth is being reported on facebook.
groups of xjws.. .
ex-jehovah's witness recovery group 3 admin.
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Etude
This "peak" publishers stat is really crafty of them and typical of the WTBTS. The "average" would yield a more accurate figure. An actuall number, comprising the final number of publishers at the end of a period would yield yet another sum which would vary due to uncotrolled varients. I don't know if it has been done before by someone here, but it would be interesting to show figures, over a number years or decades, documenting the increase in new publishers as a factor of the total count of witnesess. That would reveal at what rate people are leaving the ranks and, proportionately, the actual rate of growth of the organization. When I was in, the exciting thing was the unprecedented growth of the organization as an indicator of Jehovah's blessing. I guess Jehovah has decided to keep the party small and private.