I remember in 1969 when I was young and stupid and had just started to study with the dubs, I said to a friend in High school that God would not let man land on the moon because man had dared to venture into His realm. I'm not sure if I came up with that one myself or I had heard it from some of my equally stupid JW teachers. What a maroon!
Posts by Etude
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8Inconsistency: Tower of Babel vs. space program
by tootired2care inseveral years back i remember listening to a public talk.
the title of the talk escapes me; but one of the points (albeit wierd) that was brought out, is that the part of the mytholgy behind the symbol of apollo was defiance of god.
he made this jump by linking apollo with ishtar (nimrods wife) wife somehow...he used this point in connection with the nasa space program to make the point, that the space exploration was a defiant action against god, as a modern day like nimrod account.
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Could UFO Disclosure Bring About A Golden Age?
by metatron inthere are a great many people - and internet sites- that preach a sort of 2012/ufo gospel.
while they may contradict one another, they mostly teach that ufo's will intervene and save us, especially if governments admit that they exist.. yeah, ok..... been there, heard that..... but could there be a core of truth to this idea?.
what would happen if the world acknowledged that et's exist?.
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Etude
OUTLAW, you crack me up with your pictures!
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207
On becoming atheist - the tug of war
by Nickolas inperhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.
if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).
i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.
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Etude
I would have to disagree with you on whether Einstein would agree. Einstein was an agnostic bordering on atheist. When he said something about a great intelligence seen in the universe, he was not referring to an entity but to the inherent logic of math and physics. The Watchtower loves to use that quote as a basis for showing that "even Einstein" believed in God, when in fact he didn't. Still I can sympathize and am even a bit envious about your choice to be a deist. It's such a comforting thing to have and to expect that in the end we will go one. It's a wonderful delusion.
I came late to this discussion. But throughout, I've seen a lot of interesting suggestions about what we are and how we become one thing or another. That only reaffirmed my long standing idea that when born we are a blank slate. We learn to be deists or a kind person or a genius or a psychopathic killer. That does not exclude the fact that we have genetic predispositions that make us more suitable for one thing or another. But, our environment is at least 50% of the equation.
After decades of being very close to classical music (the piano) and seeing other children exposed to it, I came to the conclusion that Mozart or Schubert or Chopin were not genetically prescribed to be what they became. They weren't born being who they became. They were made and chiseled by their environment. Of course their environment would have amounted to nothing if they didn't have some ability to begin with. But I think that most humans have that potential at the start. If Michelangelo had been born in the jungles of the Amazon there would have been no Michelangelo. He needed a medium and the environment to become what he was.
Therefore, I think about the differences between not being taught deism and not being taught evolution. They put out quite different results. But in both cases, the individual may exhibit a desire for either one. It is in the nature of being human to think about such things. Indeed, besides the intellect to ask, we have a innate sense of the spiritual in our brains. That's why you won't find a society now or ever that hasn't had some sort of deistic ritual or belief.
Ultimately, I think it is those individual differences, both genetic and environmental, that makes someone like me to prefer being resigned to the idea that we are finite and will disappear forever, rather than have some unfounded hope that somehow we will have the chance to live on pending on what a being we never associate with does. Besides, I think there's still hope that somewhere in the distant future, science may find a way of "retrieving" people out of some universal time-line and have them come back to continue with their lives, hopefully in a better situation. Hey, that's like -- Resurrection!
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If Serena wins gold, will she stand for the US Anthem?
by Open mind inthey're playing right now and serena is ahead 6-0, 5-1.. .
thoughts?.
om.
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Etude
Holy crap, I hadn't conceived how they would act, carrying the flag around and wearing it on their clothing. Haven't they been in this situation before? I recall one of them saying how proud she was to represent her "country", meaning the U.S. Maybe they're using it ("country") in a popular way rather than a political or governmental way. OK, that's one way to quibble. Too bad the people in Malawi didn't have that benefit back in the 70s. I presume they'll stand on the podium for the gold if they win but may not put a hand over the heart. If they do, then they'll just have to run back to the congo and ask forgiveness from the elders.
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Could UFO Disclosure Bring About A Golden Age?
by metatron inthere are a great many people - and internet sites- that preach a sort of 2012/ufo gospel.
while they may contradict one another, they mostly teach that ufo's will intervene and save us, especially if governments admit that they exist.. yeah, ok..... been there, heard that..... but could there be a core of truth to this idea?.
what would happen if the world acknowledged that et's exist?.
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Etude
No!
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Nice 1975 quote from F Franz, in 1975
by Splash in*** w75 5/1 p. 285 a contrastmissionaries with an urgent, lifesaving work ***.
another speaker, f. w. franz, the societys vice-president, forcefully impressed on the audience the urgency of the christian preaching work.. he stressed that, according to dependable bible chronology, 6,000 years of human history will end this coming september according to the lunar calendar.
this coincides with a time when the human species [is] about to starve itself to death, as well as its being faced with poisoning by pollution and destruction by nuclear weapons.. franz added: theres no basis for believing that mankind, faced with what it now faces, can exist for the seventh thousand-year period under the present system of things.
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Etude
Wow, it just dawned on me that I heard him make that same speech at the Gilead class graduation in 1974 at the Sunny Side Assembly Hall in Queens, NY. When I hear other people say the Witnesses did not say Armageddon was coming soon, that speech always comes to mind. The place was packed. As a "new boy", I didn't have a seat and had to stand in the back of the auditorium. I felt so privileged then -- and dumb.
Etude.
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Etude
kepler: By all means, we need to present every possible point of view in the discussion. I view these opportunities not as debates but as informative conversations. I have learned a lot here. But what I try to do is present alternatives or challenges and not necessarily an opposite conclusion to an argument. For me, it's more important to question everything (with the proper reasoning) than to present an opposing position for the sake of argument without first establishing its credentials.
Considering the inaccuracies and contradictions in the Bible, the work remains dubious for me as a legitimate source of chronology and events. Ad to that the fact that I intensely dislike "History" (it was by far the worse subject I took in High school -- sorry Leolaia), I'm not inclined to know or pursue much about it. However, I see the necessity to learn when history and chronology are an essential part of some other issue. For me, when there is sufficient independent evidence that an event stated in the Bible corroborates, then I start paying more attention and respect to that specific account. Still, I'm reluctant to make the same assumptions about other parts just because a few have turned out right.
I think your suggestion of presenting the Biblical case contrasted by pro or con evidence can support some biblical ideas. And, it's a legitimate presentation and an acceptable tool of debate to assume the veracity of a biblical account in order to argue against it with contrasting evidence. But I feel that is not an efficient way to go. That's why I'm so much more encouraged by the recent archeological findings that are bringing to light the fabrication of the Hebrews and of Israel. The reason why that's important to me is that it is critical in resolving other issues, like the ideological and religious divisions we face today.
Etude.
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Etude
Miles3: I appreciate your observation. It gives me an opportunity to be clear and appear less naive than I might seem. That permineralization can preserve the cell structure of an organism IS the same thing as replacing (to a good degree) the original molecules that made the cell. That's what petrifaction means. The preservation of cell structure is merely visual in appearance and not in matter, otherwise, the organism would be twice as big, containing its original matter in addition to the deposited minerals. And, a little more effort in reasoning would tell you that even if the original matter of the cell was preserved along with other mineral deposits contaminants, a reading would prove difficult (at least ambiguous) if 14 C was detected both from the cell and from the contamination.
If I'm understanding you correctly, I think you have leapt to the assumption that because I talk about "flooding" that I must subscribe to the idea of a literal 6-day creation theory. No. Not even the Wittlesses believe that since they say a "day" was 1000 years long. I was referring to scientific evidence in the geological strata that supports vast flooding (although not global). That evidence supports that lore and tales that many cultures have exaggerated and still retain. So even though the topic is challenging, it's not anything that can surpass my understanding if the correct information and argument is presented. Perhaps you can come up with some that might prevent you from jump to the conclusion that for a specimen to transpire through petrifaction millions of years need to occur. The conditions for it and how that process happens depends on many factors that are not uniform throughout times and locations.
Etude.
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Ringing in the ears (Tinnitus)
by ballistic ini have had this constantly for 3 - 4 months now and am finally on some strong antibiotics at my request in case it's infected inner passage ways and sinuses because i do suffer allergies and blocked ear passageways.. anyway, if you are a closet hypochondriac in the making like me, you occasionally google things to see what's wrong with you and find references to horrendous things, which make you worry you're going to die, or start dissolving from inside out.. one such site about ringing in the ears is telling me i have some connection to the spirit realm which i can hear as a ringing in the ears.
if you don't believe me, google ringing in the ears metaphysics, and you will find it is spiritual data downloading, my heightened spiritual awareness, a choir of angels singing or the noise of the spirit realm which i haven't been able to hear until now.. i'm not sure just why there are so many theories, but when i followed some advice, and sat back in my chair and focused on the noise, it is as they tell me, a kind of vibrational thing, and a kind of relaxation can befall you.. .
i'm not saying i believe any of this, just saying, i can see where the theories stem from.
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Etude
I have severe tinnitus, probably from one too many rock concerts. Some antibiotics can cause it and even make you lose your hearing altogether. But if were to even consider that the noise I hear was supernatural, I'd have my head examined by a psychiatrist first before I have my hearing checked by an otorhinolaryngologist .
Etude.