Posts by Etude

113

Elders receive a report that I am openly displaying false religious symbol

by confusedandalone in

when you look at the image above what do you see?

a sneaker or an outward display that i am now following after another religious group?.

well yesterday i had a 10 minute conversation with an elder who finally got the balls to call me.

Etude

The situation you describe, confusedandalone, is typical of the type or reasoning that the cult breeds. It’s possible that HQ could reject the issue as banal and the elders have to stop this line of assault. But if they’re really after you, they could justify it with other things. It won’t change their means of justification. When I wrote to them about the inconsistency between the Malawi party card issue and the Mexican military card brothers had to carry, their lack of response told me volumes.

While at Bethel in the mid 70s, they would not iron your blue jeans. Apparently, Knorr felt that all the gays in Brooklyn Heights wore jeans and did not want to encourage bethelites to look the same. However, if you paid the dry cleaners, they would press them for you. When I moved to the Farm in Wallkill, I tried to get my blue jeans pressed. They refused. When I asked why they said that in Brooklyn the view is they do not press blue jeans at the laundry and they would follow suit. I replied that in Brooklyn they will press them for you at the dry cleaners if you pay. Their answer was: “Well, we’re not Brooklyn.” I took this up to the home servant (whose name I can’t recall). He was a stocky man with salt-pepper hair and walked with a limp from a knee injury or deformity. Regardless, this dude was a black hole when it came to logic.

22

Political correctness. What is it to you?

by Hortenzie in

i see it as a form of discrimination against non mainstream ideas and opinions.

that's why i don't understand why so many hold it as of a great value.

what do you think?.

Etude

I guess that's why there's a grammatical part of speech called "synonym". It means that we use different words, or in this case a phrase or expression, in order to mean the same thing. I don't differentiate between being politically correct and being sensitive to others in certain contexts. I say "certain contexts" because I don't think it's always beneficial to be politically correct of "kill" someone with kindness if that will help keep them in ignorance about an issue or unduly protected them from the truth. Sometimes, you just have to tell it like it is.

14

Questions During Meetings...Grounds for Suspicion?

by Cold Steel in

with so many meetings during the week, it seems like the opportunity to raise questions would be rich.

i just wondered how probing questions are handled in most kingdom halls.

are they taken as an indication of an inquisitive mind or a potential source of stumbling for weak members?

Etude

When I was at Bethel and attended the mini-Gilead class for "new boys", the instructor (a smug looking, slightly-condescending dude) stated that we were free to ask questions and let the Bible answer them. However, we were not supposed to use hypothetical situations. Eventually, the subject came up regarding what the Bible states on remarriage (meaning it can only be done if the partner dies or commits adultery). The implication is that a marriage outside of those two conditions would be invalid in the eyes of Jehovah.

I raised my hand and asked: "What if a couple that was married discovered that they were fleshly brother and sister? Would they have to separate? Would their marriage be invalid in the eyes of Jehovah after being consummated? What would be their standing?" With his smug look peering down at me, he reminded me that my question was out of line because I was told not to use hypothetical situations. I stated that it was not a hypothetical but based on a newspaper article I had read about two people who been separated and adopted at birth and later, after marrying, found out about each other. All remember was the frustrated sigh he let out. I don't remember his answer because he really didn't answer. He essentially dismissed my inquiry and went on to other things. I remember pointing this out to my roommate who was also attending the class.

That was the beginning of my awareness regarding how difficult questions are handled. From that point on, I became cautious about what to ask and even more cautious about the responses and reactions I got. I gotta give that guy (the instructor) credit. He really knew how to dismiss my inquiry. I guess it had happened to him before.

15

How long will it be

by joe134cd in

jw
friends

just wanting estimations on "how long do you think it will be before the society allows internet witnessing as another avenue of preaching".

i feel it will only be a matter of time.

they have to do something to counteract all the negative stuff.

Etude

Whether they officially allow it or not, it can still count. It would be just like "incidental" witnessing, like when you speak to a co-worker or somebody on the bus. If a publisher wants to use time on the Internet, s/he just has to report it. I don't see a problem there.

27

What Are The Expectations...Now??

by Cold Steel in

the society has been teaching that you-know-what is right around the corner for so long that it's lost all credibility.

what are the expecations like now?

do people still expect it to happen very soon, or are more people planning on things like higher education?

Etude

I've been out of it for so long, I hardly know anyone that's in to have an idea of urgency on their part. However, up until a few years ago, my nephew still believed that the end was near. I started thinking that the tactic was succesful because they keep convincing a new generation the end is imminent by using certain current events to show how they "fulfill" profecy (an old tactic), while carefully omitting events that would contradict that.

I recently heard someone comment that they read some figures showing that, in spite of the Iranq and Afghanistan conflicts, war is on a decline now compared to past years. That would go against the JW conventional thinking, but it won't stop them. They're good at slicing and dicing citations and statements to their benefit to convince the gullible.

25

Something NEW is happening with Jehovah's Witnesses on the internet

by Watchtower-Free in

dramatic growth is being reported on facebook.

groups of xjws.. .

ex-jehovah's witness recovery group 3 admin.

Etude

This "peak" publishers stat is really crafty of them and typical of the WTBTS. The "average" would yield a more accurate figure. An actuall number, comprising the final number of publishers at the end of a period would yield yet another sum which would vary due to uncotrolled varients. I don't know if it has been done before by someone here, but it would be interesting to show figures, over a number years or decades, documenting the increase in new publishers as a factor of the total count of witnesess. That would reveal at what rate people are leaving the ranks and, proportionately, the actual rate of growth of the organization. When I was in, the exciting thing was the unprecedented growth of the organization as an indicator of Jehovah's blessing. I guess Jehovah has decided to keep the party small and private.

40

R U DFshipped?

by DFshipped in

i am a dfshipped person who is working towards reinstatement.. i would like to meet anyone else who also would like to return.. i really would prefer not to meet people who want to criticize my desire to return.

i would like to enjoy and offer encouragemnt to others like me.

Etude

Dang! I was going to post some interesting comments for DFshipped and then realized that this thread is over 12 years old. Looking around and noticing that DFshipped hasn’t posted since tells me he went back. Even the BORG will win some, occasionally.

95

What was it about Bethel that woke you up?

by cognisonance in

jw
friends

one the how many exbethelites thread it was mentioned that some think one either leaves down the path towards apostasy or as a 100% true believer.

i'm curious what experiences did you face at bethel that woke you up (or started to at least)?.

.

Etude

One morning, I received a call from a family member while I was living at the Towers Hotel (before they refurbished it and built the tunel). I had been on night shift and was sleeping. This is the way it went. The front desk at the 124 Columbia Heights got a call for me. They would in turn call (not patch to) the front desk at the Towers. The Towers reception would then ring the floor I was in. Someone would pick up the hall phone, knock on my door and then I'd answer the hall phone and learn I had a call at the 124 building.

So, I had to get dressed in seconds, run down and jog the couple of blocks to the 124. As I was approaching the 124 Nathan Knorr noticed my disarray. I could tell he was furing from his look of disdain at me. It seemed he was going to turn around at that instant and dress me down, but I was in too much of a hurry. By the time I got to the desk, whoever called had hung up. That gave me a little time to reflect on Knorr's leer. I thought about it and it made me angrier. I contemplated that had he turned around and said something I would have unloaded on him and quicly end my Bethel career (I was relatively new). I thought: "What an asshole!"

24

untitled

by Terry in

niight has fallen at the beth sarim mansion.. president joseph franklin rutherford (the "judge") sits calmly sipping whisky from a flask on the edge of his silk sheets at bedtime.

he sets the glass on the night stand.

he begins cleaning his nickel-plated pistol to high gleam.

Etude

Excellent, Terry! A little more narrative in between the dialog and it should fill in the voids for those who know nothing about those two guys or the doctrines their doctrines as well as their personal lives. It's good enough to entertain a general public. Keep it up!

95

What was it about Bethel that woke you up?

by cognisonance in

jw
friends

one the how many exbethelites thread it was mentioned that some think one either leaves down the path towards apostasy or as a 100% true believer.

i'm curious what experiences did you face at bethel that woke you up (or started to at least)?.

.

Etude

leavingwt: "There is absolutely no procedure to have your legitimate greivances aknowledged and dealt with by the powers at Bethel." You absolutely, 100%, shit-sure hit the nail on the head (post 14996). At least that was my experience.

Examples? I got the first clue when Knorr gave us the "new boy" talk and told us that Bethel was our home, while in the next sentence told us we couldn't do what we wanted, like putting up a family picture on a wall or bring in some piece of furniture without asking. "OK", I thought. That's fair. Well, I put that to the test by wanting to post a bulletin board on wall in order to keep reminders of dish duty, watchman duties, etc. Shit, what a battle! The reason I was denied was that some brothers post "unchristian" items on those boards, like the comic strip "Love is like..." from the newspaper. When I specifically promised I would not do that, well, the argument only escalated, basically stating that they couldn't acquiesce even though they grandfathered those people who already had an installed bulletin board. In essence, they were saying that they didn't trust me, even though I was willing to abide by their rules.

Now, picture this: I came into Bethel during Knorr's reign. I once heard him over the breakfast broadcast throughout Bethel berate a sister because she didn't show up for text reading. It turns out she was pregnant and had severe morning sickness. He really didn't give a shit. The dude was tyrant.

One of my beefs was about the blue jeans. In Brooklyn, Knorr discouraged bethelites from wearing blue jeans because in Brooklyn Heights it seemed to him that homosexuals wore blue jeans. Consequently, when you sent your laundry to wash they wouldn't press your jeans. However, you could pay (from your meager allowance) to have your jeans pressed at the dry cleaners (a separate department in Bethel). When I moved to the farm I made a similar request to the dry cleaners. They said they wouldn't do it because of the view or opinion in Brooklyn about homosexuals. So, never mind that we lived in a place far removed from Brooklyn. When I pointed out that Brooklyn would allow for jeans to be pressed by the dry cleaning department, their answer was: Well, we're not Brooklyn. The infuriating part was not that I had to go around with unpressed jeans. It was the twisted logic they used to explain not doing it.

That is just one example of the frustrating situations for which there was no support, defense or venue to fight. I remember one time while working on the night shift at the Brooklyn bindery when the "supervisor" told me I could not read the Bible on my tea break (I used to sew signature to make Bibles), because the Society had deemed it proper for me to have a break to enjoy and not read the Bible. I couldn't believe it. But looking back that guy's asshole was more like a black hole. It was so tight, nothing escaped it.

I have so many stories like that it's almost painful to bring them up. Later on, when I heard stories from my "Bethel" nephews about the things they could do, I was so incensed that everything I worked for to realize and made me a "bad attitude" was now the accepted practice.

I was at "the hub of the organization". I really had expected more by way of spirituality and faireness. From the second day at Bethel (I never saw him on the first day), my roommate turned out to be an asshole. He said: "I was here first and you have to adjust to me and not me to you." What that meant is that he could pick anything he wanted in the room to be just so and I had to have sloppy seconds. Well, fuck him. As soon as I found a chance (within days) I moved in to the roach-infested Towers Hotel with another new boy from California. It was the best move I ever made.

As far as policy is concerned, everything went downhill from there. Eventually, my eyes were opened and I realized I could no longer stay there. When I went into Bethel, the contract was for a minimum of 4 years and being single. Somewhere along the line, it was changed to a one-year service promise. I guess the saw the handwriting on the wall. By then Knorr was dead. So, I left after 2 and a half years.

I wrote about this nine years ago (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/45819/1/The-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly). Before I ever went to Bethel, way back in the early 70s I asked Ray Franz and Tom Cabeen what Bethel was like. Tom's clever answer after a snicker from both him and Ray was: "It's like no other place on Earth." Man, did I find out what that meant a few years later. Like someone at Bethel once said to me: "I wouldn't take a million dollars in exchange for the experience of Bethel. But I wouldn't give a penny for a second more of it." But for that experience, I'm not sure I'd be where I am today. That was the start of my road out of the Borg.

Eventually I got to describe Bethel as a combination of being in the Army, college and prison all rolled up in one.