Hmm...This made me think about the extent of copyrights by the WTBTS. Can one, for example, copy a book, since it was "given" or "donated"? Can we digitize a book as a part of reference work? My guess is: probably not, since copyright tends to be specific. Are there many books from the WTBTS that are now out of copyright?
Posts by Etude
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37Which Watchtower publications did you keep?
by Schnufti ini'm currently cleaning up our bookcase and need to decide what goes into the trash.
i'll keep the watchtower books that are not available online anymore (e.g.
the brown "reasoning" book).
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29
The Ultimate Conversion
by Etude inone thing that surprised me shortly after joining this site was the number of individuals who, after experiencing the deception of being a jw and the hypocrisy of the “truth”, switched to being catholic or “born-again” evangelists.
it seemed to me like jumping from the hot pan into the fire.. i don’t want to piss anyone off for his or her choices.
i feel everyone is free to believe what they may.
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Etude
One thing that surprised me shortly after joining this site was the number of individuals who, after experiencing the deception of being a JW and the hypocrisy of the “TRUTH”, switched to being Catholic or “born-again” Evangelists. It seemed to me like jumping from the hot pan into the fire.
I don’t want to piss anyone off for his or her choices. I feel everyone is free to believe what they may. In addition, I’ve always been an advocate for the apparently innate need of individuals (to one degree or another) to feel “spiritual” and to yearn for some of the things religion purports to offer (a sense of awe, inner peace, respect for morals, etc).
So, when I say “jumping from the hot pan into the fire”, I mean that in the sense of going from one illogical set of ideas to another demonstrably illogical set of ideas. Perhaps it is because of my personal experience with both Catholicism and Protestantism that gives me little confidence in them as better alternatives to the JWs. Yes, the JW construct seems more devastating to individuals and families. But the other Xtian sects have the same or similar foundations for their beliefs and have a very rich history of deception, killings, money grubbing and contradictions in their tenets.
I personally know some ex-Witnesses who are now devout Catholics. But besides my being born into it, judging from history, it’s obvious how fabricated that old religion is. Protestantism inherited most of the same tenets and ideas about God and Jesus and even liturgy from the Catholics. Some people just need a place to hang up their hat. Therefore, a label or religious identity provides that for them.
For me, I think that given the manipulation of the “Scriptures”, first by the Hebrews (the O.T.) and later by the nouveau-Christians of the Roman Empire (the N.T.) puts into question many or most of the beliefs Christian sects hold. For some people who can “see through religion”, feeling religious (having the need to believe) leaves the fundamentals of God and Jesus standing but divorced from the traditions and rites of religion. But that is not more reassuring in my mind than swallowing the entire religious gamut. For me, believing has to be more profound. It has to be tenable in some explanatory and reproducible way. And so, what I have deemed the “ultimate conversion” is a total departure, not just from religion, but also from the idea that the concept of God is somehow sustainable let alone inevitable.
The more I found out about the foundations of religion and belief in deities, the more “eroded” ideas about a Supreme Being became. I remember having a much extended conversation here with another member (for which I was praised due to my beyond-the-norm patience) a few years ago in which I feel I established to her that, no matter what she believed in and how fervently; she could not sustain it beyond herself, beyond her own brain. She could not teach it to me, point to it, give directions or demonstrate how to “receive Christ” or “heed the calling from the Lord”. However, I understood her need for devotion and her sense of dependence on believing that there must be a God.
So, to everyone else who chooses to “believe” in a deity, go ahead if it makes you feel better. I guess that’s a good thing. But at least consider that it may be temporary. I remember being so sure I had finally found right religion in the JWs I could not imagine anything shaking my resolve. Man, I was so wrong!
Etude.
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Deflated after realising my inactive friends are POMI
by Isambard Crater ini'm going through an extremely hard and dark time right now and really yearned for the support of people i know in the flesh, and i really thought revealing my serious doubts and frustrations to a few close friends who became inactive several years ago would help.
they attend the memorial and no more than 2 sunday meetings each year, and haven't preached for several years, so are still technically baptised-but-inactive.. it broke my heart or at least left me feeling very alone when they all (they don't know each other and live in separate areas) told me that they can sympathise but reckon i should stay with "the truth" (their words, still) as it's the best thing there is.
it's like i'd discovered a new group of people, not pimo (physically in, mentally out, like me) but pomi (physically out, mentally in).
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Etude
I must confess, I was a POMI for a while. I think I even lost a good friend I discovered had left the BORG because I said to him I had hoped to "return". I truly regret that. However, I found that being POMI is not a permanent or terminal condition. After I read Franz' COC and asked the Service Desk in Brooklyn about the contradiction between what happened in Malawi (with Witnesses refusing to buy a party card) and in Mexico (where males have to "register" for military service at least officially) that I started to retreat. After the headquarter's reply (a non-reply) I received, it put the nail in the coffin for me. I became a POMO! Considering my previous state, it was a relatively quick transformation, although not over night.
Over the years, my re-evaluation of everything has been truly profound. I didn't just question the JWs. I questioned the very foundation of belief and why must there be a Supreme Being when everything around me that I consider reality seemed to contradict any religious ideas I had learned.
So, there's hope for POMIs that they may encounter a revelation like I did. Being physically out provides the advantage of exposing people to alternate ideas. The reverse is true in more than one way: Someone who is physically in but mentally out may decide to return or finally get the hell out. Whatever happens, it didn't happen fast enough for me and so I see where the frustration comes into it.
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24
Do you find it therapeutic coming to this site?
by UnshackleTheChains ini read on another thread how this site has helped another user and that for them it has been a form of therapy.. for me yes, jwn has most certainly been a form of therapy.. i recall the days i first came to jwn (in 2004) and couldn't believe i had found people who were of the same opinion as myself in regards to the society.
it was this site that led me to reading ray franz's book 'crisis of conscience' which i read twice within a week.
it also led me to jw facts that goes into every nook and cranny regarding the society's teachings, policies and history.. note: i also visit many other sites and watch you tube videos a lot, but gravitate here most of the time.. coming here to express my inner most thoughts and feelings has helped me no end and allows me to overcome my frustrations.
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Etude
I think I joined about 15 years ago. I've delved into other social sharing sources (namely Facebook) in order to express other opinions I have. However, I keep coming back here (this last time after a multi-year absence).
I'm very greatful I found this site to vent the pain of my experiences as a JW. It's been not only cathartic but damned-right therapeutic. I've also come to know in a special way a lot of very smart people on this site as well as courageous and funny people. I feel freer here than on any other social site because I know that most people here understand with unique empathy my life-changing experiences with the JWs.
Etude.
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47
Serena Williams Pregnant
by wisdomfrombelow innow that she has announced that she is 20 weeks pregnant and not married, what is her status in the cult?
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Etude
Hey, let's not forget that 'mommie' is there watching what the geedubs say about her daughter and soon to be grandchild. As part of the girls' "team", the mom has some cash too and may be the one who actually donates, as a baptized Witness (I presume). JWs are not going to refuse to milk that cow just cause Serena is a little pregnant.
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SAD news about OOMPA......
by redredrose inour friend, oompa, has passed away.
just recieved the news a couple of hours ago, and have almost no details.
it happened today or yesterday, he took his own life.
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Etude
I was looking through my old posts (I haven't been around for a while) and found this thread. It still saddens me very much about Eric. Though he's gone, he still lives here. I wonder how many others I've met here have passed? -
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How much damage has internet done against the The Watchtower Society ?
by opusdei1972 inin the beginning of internet the society was worried about the information published exposing its falsehood.
so, i wonder how many people lost the society on account of forums and web sites like this.
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Etude
Maybe the Watchtower will change its strategy. If I'm not mistaken, the fastest growth in the cult is in Third-world countries. If poor countries don't have a decent internet infrastructure, it will be a while before their eyes open. It's possible the strange seed would have been sewn by the time they get access. I hear that the Mormons are also in the same situation. For an American religion, they actually have more members outside the US than in it. -
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How much damage has internet done against the The Watchtower Society ?
by opusdei1972 inin the beginning of internet the society was worried about the information published exposing its falsehood.
so, i wonder how many people lost the society on account of forums and web sites like this.
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Etude
The Internet did not affect my decision to leave at all. In fact (due to my misplaced desire to "return") it never occurred to me to find information on the organization. When I started on the Internet (1980) there was no World Wide Web or browsers. We had to connect to an on-ramp to ARPANET and use Gophers, Archies and Veronicas to find stuff.
It was after reading Crisis of Conscious (a recommendation from a friend) that they started to lose me. I wrote the GB a letter about the Mexico-Malawi issue. After receiving the most disappointing response in my entire life, I decided to drop them. Nevertheless, I'm thankful for sites such as this and the dedication of some individuals to identify issues and information that will reveal the WTBTS lies.
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Who oversees the money for the WT?
by John Aquila inwhen the wt sells property for a billion dollars profit, who decides what that money is going to be used for?.
when all the money comes in from all the kingdom halls bank accounts worldwide, did all that money go into one big account and who has authority to spend it and cut some checks to whoever?
when all the monthly donations come in to the watchtower headquarters, who decides distribution, and to who?
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Etude
Juan Viejo2 Thanks for the explanation. It was very thorough. Before your explanation, I had suspected the WTBTS benefited somehow from the KH. One reason is that I had never heard of elders being in charge or receiving anything after the closure of KH. Also, I had realized how cunning the organization was with its arrangement. Of course at the time, I thought this was the way Jehovah wanted it and it protected the organization. But after realizing how much dough they were rolling in, while "expanding" everywhere (in the 1970s), I figured it didn't all come from change out of the pockets of the lowly publishers. I'm sure there were some rich benefactors. But in between those and the average publisher, there was a scheme.
I remember thinking about how (in my day) we would have to pay for literature for the field at the congregation. We then had to ask for a "donation" from the public to cover for the paper and ink. I honestly don't remember but, since we paid up-front, whatever we received as a "donation" went to cover what we had been charged in advance. Many years later (I was very much out by then) I heard about their scuttle with the IRS. I think it was my mom who told me that publishers would no longer have to pay for literature at the congregation. The penalty was the organization losing their tax-exempt status.
But what got me thinking initially was that it was original contributions (personal and from the collection box) that paid for the paper and ink and everything else. Why was the society then requiring the congregations to in essence "buy" the literature from them? I don't know if it's possible to calculate how much money those bastards made from that scheme. However, I imagine that it is comparable to the monies they've made from the sale of KHs.
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Who oversees the money for the WT?
by John Aquila inwhen the wt sells property for a billion dollars profit, who decides what that money is going to be used for?.
when all the money comes in from all the kingdom halls bank accounts worldwide, did all that money go into one big account and who has authority to spend it and cut some checks to whoever?
when all the monthly donations come in to the watchtower headquarters, who decides distribution, and to who?
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