Just finished reading the Big News essay....gotta read it again because I'm so ticked off I probably missed a few points. The bottom line that I get from this is that a witness can take blood and it is totally a conscious matter and has been for years!!! No matter how you cut it, if you can take particles a/b/c/d/e/f/ from blood you might as well take the whole thing. The society had us all believing that we couldn't store our blood but hey, I guess we were all duped on that one as well. As an elder I certainly never heard of all the changes and I know for a fact that no one else I knew heard either. This is a major change that they kept secret. So what's the point of signing a blood card? Whats the point of the HLC? If it's all supposed to do with blood but blood isn't really an issue then what the heck is all this for? Misrepresentation and lies. Might sound stupid but I guess I'm down there with the uneducated JW's and it doesn't feel good. Confuse us with the big words while making it seem as if nothing changed so we didn't question the no blood policy - when in fact it all changed! I know more than a few people who I need to copy this for and send it - I'm so ticked.
sammielee24
JoinedPosts by sammielee24
-
9
Blood Card - Why Bother??
by sammielee24 injust finished reading the big news essay....gotta read it again because i'm so ticked off i probably missed a few points.
the bottom line that i get from this is that a witness can take blood and it is totally a conscious matter and has been for years!!!
no matter how you cut it, if you can take particles a/b/c/d/e/f/ from blood you might as well take the whole thing.
-
-
-
92
Brand New Blood Card
by PoppyR inhubby has just come back from the service meeting where they have been handed out brand new style blood cards, now called 'advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment' .
it's quite a bit different.
and has the line on it about giving permission to the hospital liason committee to see your notes and medical records.. very scary stuff i think, and i certainly wont be filling one in.. i'm really short of time tonight, but will scan it in, along with the notes that go with it and try and post it some time over the next day or so if someone else doesn't beat me to it!.
-
-
sammielee24
In Australia the patient notes are the property of the doctor, (or hospital). They are not the patients property. If a patient wants access to the notes they have to ask (nicely!!) permission. Even then sometimes they may have to apply under freedom of information act for copies of these records. So I don't see this new card happening in OZ.
My mother was in the hospital for quite a long time and my 2 siblings and I had concerns over some of the medications and treatment that she was receiving, so we discussed this with her and drew up an authorization agreement giving us access to her records. She signed the paper as did the 3 of us and we had it witnessed by one of the staff there. We ensured that a copy was placed in her file and from that point on there was no problem with us reviewing or questioning what was in there. To me, this would be no different than the HLC having access so I can see no legal issues if it's all consenual. The bottom line is going to be based on trust - why sign it if you trust your family to do what's best for you? Do you and should you trust the HLC? BTW - my experience took place in Canada. sammieswife.
-
3
Child abuse cases
by sammielee24 inis there a list of the names and/or persons responsible for the alleged abuse cases on file somewhere?
do we think there's a real possibility that if the path is opened up for a civil suit on the blood issue that it may be possible to infiltrate the court system with a class action on the abuse cases?
i recognize the sensitivity of the subject itself but i'm just wondering if a one-two punch wouldn't be effective.
-
-
sammielee24
Is there a list of the names and/or persons responsible for the alleged abuse cases on file somewhere? Do we think there's a real possibility that if the path is opened up for a civil suit on the blood issue that it may be possible to infiltrate the court system with a class action on the abuse cases? I recognize the sensitivity of the subject itself but I'm just wondering if a one-two punch wouldn't be effective. At the very least again, while winning dollars may not always be the case, it doesn't mean that you don't win in the end by virtue of the issue becoming public in the mainstream media. The Catholic church is still recouping from the bad publicity and pay out - imagine the reputation of the watchtower if it's played out in one of Jay Leno's jokes. Not good. sammieswife.
-
2
Starting the campaign
by sammielee24 innot having read every single post, i'm wondering if there has been any sort of mass organized effort to bring this essay out into the public without opening anyone up to legal from the society?
if every state spearheaded a campaign via the internet (like people on this group) and produced lists of hospitals, no blood organizations, doctors for example and then had an eye catching heading on the cover sheet and mailed all of these places a copy of relevant or whole parts of the essay that would cover that territory.
then ditto for all television, radio and other news sources.
-
-
sammielee24
Not having read every single post, I'm wondering if there has been any sort of mass organized effort to bring this essay out into the public without opening anyone up to legal from the society? If every state spearheaded a campaign via the internet (like people on this group) and produced lists of hospitals, no blood organizations, doctors for example and then had an eye catching heading on the cover sheet and mailed all of these places a copy of relevant or whole parts of the essay that would cover that territory. Then ditto for all television, radio and other news sources. Then legal departments. What would your cover letter say on it and how much data would you include for the person/facility/org to read? sammieswife
-
38
Custody brochure next to be examined?
by alamb inthe blood information has now been dissected and shown for what it is.. .
the custody brochure encourages members to commit perjury, which is unconstitutional and unlawful.
this is another weak point.
-
-
sammielee24
It would be great if a class action suit were being filed on the blood issue and at the same time there was representation for child and disfellowshipping issues. The lives that have been destroyed and the games that have been played have to stop. I thought some more on the blood issue last night. Although the society is really good at telling people they want you to investigate things for yourself, they brainwash you into believing that if you do it's because you aren't trusting Jehovah and then if you actually do go out and investigate and question, you are labelled an apostate and df'd for it. Scare tactics again. I am really hoping that this is just the start of a thorough legal examination of all of their materials which results in a lot of public interest in the policies around disfellowshipping and anything child related. I'd really like to see every one of the thousands of cases of child sex abuse opened up and brought to court. I also hope the 1975 prediction is brought out and that another suit is filed for the tremendous losses people suffered because Jehovah's mouthpieces assured their followers that they should shed all their worldly possessions since the world was coming to an end anyway. Many people never recovered financially from that fiasco. At the very least the negative publicity will make a lot of the world stand up and take notice and halt new recruits - as well as make current non JW mates take a more aggressive stance on the religious upbringing of their children.
I'm sorry for your situation alamb - harsh words that the world needs to hear. Disfellowshipped persons are now part of the world so it speaks volumes of how they really view every person whose door they knock on. The watchtower has more money and thus more power right now to fight these issues, but let's see what transpires in the future. They may not be so smug then. sammieswife.
-
328
Journal of Church and State: WT NO-BLOOD EXPOSE'
by AndersonsInfo in(baylor university, waco, tx) an essay entitled, "jehovah's witnesses, blood transfusions, and the tort of misrepresentation," found in the autumn issue of baylor universitys prestigious journal of church and state, published december 13, 2005, exposes the vulnerability of jehovahs witnesses religious organization to massive claims for compensation because of the religions misrepresentation of the medical risks of blood transfusions.
this milestone essay critically examines one of the religions main publications for teaching their children and new recruits about their blood beliefs, how can blood save your life?
the peer-reviewed essay details many misrepresentations of medical facts, which the religion partly relies on to support its blood prohibition, thus denying its members from making fully informed medical decisions.
-
-
sammielee24
Not being a lawyer, but having an excessive degree of optimism that change can, does and will take place by the people and for the people -
2. If anything it is a Free Exercise issue and the Society is certainly going to be allowed to believe whatever it wants
Believing in something is okay but is misrepresentation of the facts to secure membership in your organization legal? Is there not a hint of fraud in any organization acting this way? If an organization believes that the use physical discipline is a right of their members and part of their doctrine religiously, does this make it okay for them to beat those same members regardless of age and get away with that on the basis of freedom of religion? At what point does it cross over to a criminal act? When a person dies? This is interesting since in effect we can then add freedom of choice to this argument. The argument may be that people have freedom of choice to practice any religion however, we then would have to define the age of effect since children raised in a cult will for the most part have no independent or critical thinking skills and subsequently have no way of understanding the real meaning of freedom. We could then say again that freedom of choice is in effect for adults joining an organization but do we not have to look at the reasons they join? The doctrines must be clearly spelled out with appropriate, clearly defined punishment indicated beside every infraction or else the punishment of the organization and it's doctrines is clearly misrepresented.
This is the problem with lets say the disfellowshipping doctrine. We can read that offences of adultery, drunkenness, thievery or greed are punishable offences if the person committing the acts is not repentent. We can read that a person will be disfellowshipped for that offence. What we are not told is what the term disfellowshipping is defined as and this causes a problem when a person believes that the term is applied as excommunication from their church and the society defines the act as 'removal and total disassociation' of the offender from the lives of every Witness, regardless of relationship. Misrepresentation can also be applied when those offences that people are disfellowshipped for are not listed but instead simply applied at will and on a whim. There must be accountability and responsibility for the severe application of such punishment that destroys peoples lives and livlihood.
I guess we all have a right to believe in anything but when that belief becomes twisted by us in order to have others join in, well that to me is misrepresentation.
Lets not forget either - one can say that a person or organization is acting from the standpoint of religious belief and so acted in good faith, however, if it can be shown that over a period of time - perhaps even years, that this belief is being interpreted, read or understood incorrectly and that the organization or person chose to ignore requests for dialogue or change to this belief that might result in a change of doctrine that they refused to consider because it might harm the organization, then we would have a case for deliberate manipulation and misrepresentation.
Anyway, its the wee hours of the morning - just a few meanderings and let's not jab away at my run on sentences because I'm too tired to think straight..sammieswife.
-
328
Journal of Church and State: WT NO-BLOOD EXPOSE'
by AndersonsInfo in(baylor university, waco, tx) an essay entitled, "jehovah's witnesses, blood transfusions, and the tort of misrepresentation," found in the autumn issue of baylor universitys prestigious journal of church and state, published december 13, 2005, exposes the vulnerability of jehovahs witnesses religious organization to massive claims for compensation because of the religions misrepresentation of the medical risks of blood transfusions.
this milestone essay critically examines one of the religions main publications for teaching their children and new recruits about their blood beliefs, how can blood save your life?
the peer-reviewed essay details many misrepresentations of medical facts, which the religion partly relies on to support its blood prohibition, thus denying its members from making fully informed medical decisions.
-
-
sammielee24
This is amazing! The door has been opened for so many in so many ways! I'm thinking way beyond the blood issue alone - thanks Barbara, well worth the wait!
-
31
Is it possible to hijack your publisher card from cong. records?
by watch the tower ini wonder if anyone has any ideas on how to remove your publisher card from the cong.
secretary?.
i've completely faded but ppl in my former cong.
-
-
sammielee24
Have someone pose as the secretary of the 'new cong' - have him give a PO box and name to send the cards to, as well as a letter of recommendation as required. [Hopefully you are far enough away now that they won't have a handy checklist of the congregation you name]
You might also try the above but without the physical contact by writing the letter yourself and signing it as Brother So and So, secretary. Ask for the recommendation and cards to be sent to the box number. Generally speaking, we weren't suspicious of these types of requests - why would a brother would lie about it? The cards of a df'd person are another matter.
-
1093
THE NEWS IS BIGGER THAN DATELINE, BBC, CBC, ETC.
by AndersonsInfo inif i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
-
-
sammielee24
..checking out the posts from last night and patiently waiting...
-
9
JW Group Forums - what they say
by forsharry innot sure why i've been going around to the jw forums like on myspace and such to see what they say...maybe i'm just stupid...who knows...but i was surprised at the vitriolic venom that many of the youth that still pay homage to da troof spew from their mouths.
i know i was raised jw but i would always pride myself on listening to what others said, even if i secretly didn't agree with it.
because it was a polite thing to do...and i had the truth!
-
-
sammielee24
kiss my twinkie endowed ass
lol forsharry.....I tried on some clothes that I hadn't worn since early spring - or should say tried to try them on - this caught my attention quite obviously - sammieswife.