Posts by TheListener

14

Daniel-P's Bethel Papers

by daniel-p in

jw
friends

entry and exit papers: http://www.mediafire.com/?exrr1amq2st.

bethel life: http://www.mediafire.com/?itdnv159cxa.

info for the wallkill bethel family: http://www.mediafire.com/?b22smj2nbmt.

TheListener

Oh man you're so much faster than me. I just located all my crap and haven't even begun to scan it yet. I will get to it though.

47

so jehovah's witnesses came to our door, this is about the fifth time, i always miss them, but they talk to my wife, this time i was home due to the holiday season, the man was an elder, he came with a newbie, thought he would show her "how's its done"), the young women sat there with mouth wide open, as she watched me beat up her elder with his own bible.

well after discussing the scriptures for about 2 hours, (subjects included: salvation, ransom, permission of evil, god's organization), she looked at me and said "amazing, i've never heard it explained quite that way before.".

the elder asked me what religious affiliations i had, i told him, "i am with the associated bible students.

TheListener

when flustered and embarrassed people can and do say some pretty off the wall stuff.

What's so unusual about an embarrassed and flustered elder calling someone the anti-christ?

I wouldn't have said it - I would have left as soon as my scriptural knowledge was shown up the first time. In the car group I would have said you must be apostate and then marked your door down as a do not call.

55

Copy of CO Letter/Outline Regarding Education - In Spanish

by grassyknoll07 in

this site has a copy of the co outline... in spanish

http://www.herniacerebral.blogspot.com/

TheListener

Excellent!

20

Wife attending DC, what can I expect when she returns?

by insearchoftruth in

my wife has recently been contacted by a pesky meddling sister about restarting a bs that she stopped almost a year ago and she is going to be attending the assembly in hampton, va in a couple of weeks.. i have no idea what these are like, and was wondering if you all could provide me some read ahead material so i know what areas they will hit on, as well as be able to prepare me for her attitude and mood on her return, not only each evening, but also after the event is over.

.

TheListener

Rounding up the worldly friends is a good idea. Made me laugh thinking about some emergency phone call tree with worldly friends answering from all over the country and swooping in to ask your wife out for a ladies night.

Beat the witnesses to the punch. Arrange for a regularly scheduled activity. Perhaps a class at a local community center or a college course that you would both enjoy that's not pertinent to her major/minor. Don't just set up a date night because the WTS is waaaaay more important that a date night (take it from me) but make it a committed thing to an outside entity. Perhaps her worldly (hahah using that term) can help you plan or arrange something.

Oh and you could plan some weekend trips away in the month of august and september. that always helps.

29

Could we sue the WTS?

by nbernat in

is there any extent of the law which we could sue the society for taking our time, brainwashing us and tearing apart our families?

or would that just be pushing it?.

i ask because the attorney who prosecuted jfk's murderer came out with a book outlining a case against bush for murder which is pretty far-fetched yet convincing.

TheListener

All I know is this:

A major class action suit with thousands of members suing for character defamation and pain and suffering due to being disfellowshipped wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning - BUT IT SURE WOULD CATCH THE NEWS MEDIA'S ATTENTION.

20

Wife attending DC, what can I expect when she returns?

by insearchoftruth in

my wife has recently been contacted by a pesky meddling sister about restarting a bs that she stopped almost a year ago and she is going to be attending the assembly in hampton, va in a couple of weeks.. i have no idea what these are like, and was wondering if you all could provide me some read ahead material so i know what areas they will hit on, as well as be able to prepare me for her attitude and mood on her return, not only each evening, but also after the event is over.

.

TheListener

Insearchof,

I am really sorry to hear this. Things seemed to be going very well for you.

she'll be love bombed for certain.

I would provide her with a notepad and tell her it's to write down what she thinks about what the speakers or others are saying - it's not to take notes, but to note her feelings. this could provide valuable insight to her and yourself later when you discuss them (if you do).

Do you think she'll use this as a stepping stone to starting up her study program again?

I'm really really sorry to hear this.

TL

7

Demons and inanimate objects

by TheListener in

jw
friends

in another thread vm44 asked if there was any biblical precedent to a demon attaching itself to an inanimate object.. no one answered on that thread yet.

i don't recall any such thing being in the bible.. does anyone have a scripture that shows the demons can attach or demonize an inanimate object?.

if not, then it really does seem plausible that the wts are using the demons just like other religions may use hellfire.

TheListener

I searched various Christian sites online. It seems that most christians do not feel that inanimate objects can be demon posessed. Some fundamentalists do.

I found the following information in a christian discussionf forum. The information comes from the book Protecting Your Home From Spiritual Darkness by Chuck Pierce.

ddDeuteronomy 5:6 'I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 7 'You shall have no other gods before Me. 8 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Acts 19:18And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all.
He reminds us of the story of Rachel in Genesis 31,dying young "because" of the idols she stole and hid, and the story in Joshua 7 of Israel's defeat in the battle of Ai because Achan took and hid forbidden objects after being specifically instructed by God not to do so.

The scriptural support appears somewhat strained. A separate poster said this about the presented scriptural evidence:

Mr. Pierce is flat out wrong. All the examples you listed were examples of idolatry or blatant disobedience coupled with covetiousness. It was the actions of the person that caused the problem, not the object itself.

Deuteronomy 5discusses idolatry.
Rachel died because she stole idols with the intent of worshiping them. Also, the curse came from her husband, not from a demon or a society. Also, to further destroy Mr. Pierce's use of this verse to buttress his point, notice that Rachel died DESPITE having removed the idols, cleansed herself, and building an altar
It was the condition of Rachel's heart in relation to the idols that caused the curse to come true.
[*]Demons can and do inhabit inanimate objects
I find no scripture stating anything like that.
[*]Destroying objects can free your household and your family from demonic influence
Again, the object is not what causes the presence of a demon, it is the action of the person. When we resist the devil, (not when we go through the house destroying inanimate objects) he flees.

James 4:7to "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

I'll post more if I come across it. Has anyone searched the WT CD rom? It may provide some insight on what the WTS uses to back up their inanimate demonization belief.

10

jw's slacking off on fs?

by carla in

i hear you guys saying that often.

i find it frustrating because mine sure hasn't!

maybe it is all the jw's who have ubm's who do most of the door to door now?

TheListener

Great reply Carla.

Raw and honest.

7

Demons and inanimate objects

by TheListener in

jw
friends

in another thread vm44 asked if there was any biblical precedent to a demon attaching itself to an inanimate object.. no one answered on that thread yet.

i don't recall any such thing being in the bible.. does anyone have a scripture that shows the demons can attach or demonize an inanimate object?.

if not, then it really does seem plausible that the wts are using the demons just like other religions may use hellfire.

TheListener

In another thread VM44 asked if there was any biblical precedent to a demon attaching itself to an inanimate object.

No one answered on that thread yet. I don't recall any such thing being in the Bible.

Does anyone have a scripture that shows the demons can attach or demonize an inanimate object?

If not, then it really does seem plausible that the WTS are using the demons just like other religions may use hellfire. Scare tactic.

28

Potential Changes at Bethel...

by TheListener in

jw
friends

i posted this on another thread but it really got me thinking about how the wts could really do this:.

the wts needs to stop spending so much cash.. they have real estate but once sold and the proceeds used it offers no more value.. they need to simplify, simplify, simplify (and isn't that the mantra they recite each time they make an organizational change?).

they could: push more and more printing to the individual publishers in order to cut down on printing costs (this may only apply to developed countries but it still would result in significant savings).

TheListener

Basically a lot of witnesses are lazy. Yes, yes, yes, they work hard doing all that mama tells them to but they do it in the laziest way possible.

Most barely study or study while watching tv, field service is 70% coffee break and driving from one end of the territory to the other or doing the pioneer shuffle, meeting attendance is time to just sit back and realx in a semi comfortable chair. They appear busy on the outside (and feel busy) but in reality they're lazy.

I think printing of member only literature by the local body of elders makes more sense than my original thought of all the tracts and brochures being printed at home.

If the WTS gives the brush off to all non-trustworthy elders and COs they can implement a more progressive pushing down of management duties. Let's face it the WTS is a business. In business you want the loyalist cheap labor you can get doing the most work you can give them. The elders are primed for that position. Throw them a bone of a trip to Patterson for training, or a DC or CA talk and they're yours. Remove the CO from breathing down their neck and make one of their own locally responsilbe and again they're yours.

The elders and the core congregation members provide the peer pressure from within to keep things running on auto pilot. Members may be lazy and they may live double lives but the peer pressure (along with Disfellowshipping) maintains the pressure for outward conformity.

As far as commuter bethelite program goes - I think it will be reinstituted and expanded - but called something else. A call will go forward asking volunteers to apply and to be ready to move NEAR bethel if invited (no in bethel).

Just my opinion.