Posts by TheListener

31

If you have kids who are being exposed to JW beliefs

by Libelle in

it's becoming clearer and clearer that i need to muster some sort of strategy for countering the mr's indoctrination of the kids.

now some of these kids are stepkids, so that makes it a bit hairier.

but for our youngest, i will need to think about how to teach her other things too.

TheListener

Garyneal, that's so great. Lucky for you then that your daughter should be considered bad association and not get many witness invites. Hopefully that will work in your favor.

18

Cognitive dissonance... help!

by ele_lux in

something strange (maybe not) is happening to me.

when i come here, or get online and find proof that jehovah's witnesses are not "the truth", or when i talk to my brother and really think stuff through, i'm absolutely convinced that i'm doing the right thing by leaving before i get older and waste more of my life.. but when i'm tired or scared or in some other way not fully active in thought, i still feel guilty and fearful that armageddon will come and i'll regret this.. i had expected that the moment i consciously and in use of reason convinced my self that this wasn't the truth, i'd be mentally free from it.

but i still feel its grip on the back of my mind.. what can i do to get rid of that dissonance (or whatever it's called)?.

TheListener

ele_lux,

Everytime there was a storm I just knew Jehovah was going to destroy me. I would wake up in the middle of the night and lay there just knowing armageddon was going to start and I wasn't going to make it. I was convinced that if I would just read the WT and AW more and study better for the meetings that I would get my mind right. But, at the same time I had studied the doctrines and the history and knew it was all wrong. The fear kept at me like that for a very long time. I knew I was really free once the fear dropped away.

You're going to do just fine. I wish you the best of luck.

31

If you have kids who are being exposed to JW beliefs

by Libelle in

it's becoming clearer and clearer that i need to muster some sort of strategy for countering the mr's indoctrination of the kids.

now some of these kids are stepkids, so that makes it a bit hairier.

but for our youngest, i will need to think about how to teach her other things too.

TheListener

What I am putting in this post is based on my life and may or may not work for you. I hope some of it helps somebody.

Never talk bad about your witness spouse.

Let your kids know you love them no matter what. Witness or non-witness doesn't matter. That sounds easy but in reality it can be tough when they get older and are still becoming little witnesses. But, if you start early and reconfirm this message it will sink in. I've found that you have to hit this message in two ways. First, by action. They have to see in your actions that you love them even when they choose to do something witnessy. Second, by words. Don't just rely on them to see your actions and understand their meaning. You must reassure them verbally that you love them no matter what. Discuss it with them and tell them you will love them no matter what. I don't think you need to specifically mention the witnesses but kids sometimes will ask questions like "if I ruined our car would you love me?!?'. Answer yes and elaborate as necessary.

Ask your kids if they believe God loves them. Also ask them if they believe God loves yourself and/or your spouse. Talk about how God loves everyone and how Jesus died so everyone could have life. I think the object is to stress everyone versus specific ones. Ask them what people need to do to live forever (I never added on earth or in heaven) then Read Acts 16:23-35 or summarize depending on their age. After you've read it a few times spread apart by a week(s) or month(s) you can keep hitting the mantra of "what do we need to do to live forever?" This seemed pretty powerful without even talking bad about the truth. Hit the subject of Grace along with this. Grace is never discussed at the hall and when it is it's called undeserved kindness. They won't fully understand that they are the same thing. I can't stress enough that Grace is a doctrine that IMHO gives kids a sort of inner calmness. Plus they'll wonder why such a cool thing isn't discussed at the KH.

I totally agree with teaching them to think and see through the BS of life. Others have covered that very well.

I have also found that witness parents tend to be busier (in a made up stressed out sort of witnessy way) than the non-witness mate. Take advantage of all the time you can to spend with your kids. If your kids go to the meetings regularly but then are sick one night - be there with them to take advantage of that time. If the spouse goes in service and you and the kids don't - be there with them and maybe even take them to breakfast.

Encourage non-witness friends and after school clubs. Kids are naturally drawn to both these things so its fairly simply to naturally let it happen. Perhaps your county or city has recreation facilities with kids nights or various classes. Some of these can be done as a family. The idea is to have fun with them and to let them have fun with others their own age away from the indoctrination. When they play with other witness kids they tend to start using the same words and terms and that's a slippery slope.

Use standard Christian terminology if you are a Christian. Use the word cross. Say Bless you after a sneeze, have fun clinking your glasses at dinner (even if it's just ice water), tell them to have a blessed day when leaving for school, remind them that Jesus if our king, redeemer, judge and intermediary. When appropriate ask them what Jesus would do. I find that making Jesus the focal point highlights the fact that he isn't talked about in that way at the hall.

Just my thoughts.

96

Challenges Facing the Watchtower Org

by eric356 in

ive been thinking about the future of the watchtower organization and the challenges it faces in coming decades.

its difficult to address the issue without allowing personal feelings affect the analysis.

many people seem to think that the society will collapse fairly soon, based mostly on the fact that the person dislikes the leadership or cant understand how others can believe the doctrine.

TheListener

Perhaps the WTS is more like Babylon the Great than they realize?

Remember when they taught us that Babylong the Great fell way back in 1918/1919 and that what we have now is its last gasps before it completely expires? Sounds more like the WTS was talking about themselves.

__________

The average rank and file believe it, the leadership believes it and they won't easily give it up. So, if you have an unworkable model, but believe in it completely, what do you do? That is what I see as the main question.

That's why I mentioned special focus on the youth. Yes, trying to imagine myself going door to door with some JW youth pastor(elder or ms) seems unbearable, but for someone who truly believes and sees whatever situation he/she is in as a stepping stone to greater privileges thus a closer relationship to God - no embarrassment is too much. Plus, it just reinforces the persecution complex.

I also believe they continue to plan for the future because although they very much believe they're in the time of the end they don't really know how long a period they have to live in and must properly take care of all that God has entrusted to them. That means growing as much as possible and helping as many people as possible. Future planning is just plain prudent - for those who really believe.

It does make sense to me that as the organization has changed so much in the past decade or two that a strong leader at the top who feels that things have gone awry could split things in some way. Like everything in life these things are all about timing. If Ray Franz existed today he may have led the charge to change the organization and had enough support to create a tipping point. We'll never know. Is the organization primed now for such a tipping point? We'll have to wait and see. With Teddy gone who knows what may happen with the power vacuum he left. Plus, those previously sidelined or nervous to speak their mind may find new power (perhaps by grouping together agains any heir apparent).

This is a good thread and I hope it doesn't die too soon.

96

Challenges Facing the Watchtower Org

by eric356 in

ive been thinking about the future of the watchtower organization and the challenges it faces in coming decades.

its difficult to address the issue without allowing personal feelings affect the analysis.

many people seem to think that the society will collapse fairly soon, based mostly on the fact that the person dislikes the leadership or cant understand how others can believe the doctrine.

TheListener

Great analysis everyone!

Streets, I have always thought that the WTS would start age specific Sunday school type classes on the weekend. Perhaps a half hour or so in the classroom and then an hour +/- in the field ministry. That would help retain their youth.

Let's face it, without birthday parties, Sunday school, youth groups and a specific youth ministry the young ones aren't truly emotionally connecting. They are going through the motions. This seems to be catching up to them at some point which is why the retention rate is so low.

________

I loved the point about one or two GB members getting it into their heads that they have been specially chosen to correct the thinking and direction of the organization. I would love it even more if those one or two were more hardcore - I believe the best way for the masses to wake up and leave the organization is for the organization to become even stricter and more controlling than it is. I don't want them to go mainstream and then have people stuck in a more comfortable place and thus never leave.

I feel like I could see a couple of the GB2.0 doing something like that.

____________

They may have to split their model for different cultures. They may have printing facilities in 3rd world areas and electronic distribution in 1st world areas. They seem to be pretty good about tailoring their message to specific types of people and culture.

31

declaring the truth about the truth during a talk from the platform

by agent zero in

has anyone done this, seen it happen, or heard of it happening?

with what results?.

TheListener

I believe a poster called LittleToe did something like that years ago. If I'm incorrect - sorry.

TL

109

...Obama on Jon Stewart`s "Daily Show"...

by OUTLAW in

last night obama was a guest,on jon stewart`s "daily show"... stewart did`nt pull any punch`s... obama got a chance to say,what was on his mind... .

civil obama interview on 'daily show' cements stewart's talent, influence .

robert bianco usa today october 28, 2010. when it comes to interview gets, it doesn't get any better than sitting presidents.

TheListener

Sooner I think you have a point. Not the death part but the other part. You know about how all the news outlets are biased in some way.

Whatever happened to presenting the facts and ....... stopping. Just present the facts. Present the news - don't analyze it.

Anyway as long as Charles Krauthammer stops beieng on tv I'll be happy - his face freaks me out!

109

...Obama on Jon Stewart`s "Daily Show"...

by OUTLAW in

last night obama was a guest,on jon stewart`s "daily show"... stewart did`nt pull any punch`s... obama got a chance to say,what was on his mind... .

civil obama interview on 'daily show' cements stewart's talent, influence .

robert bianco usa today october 28, 2010. when it comes to interview gets, it doesn't get any better than sitting presidents.

TheListener

Seriously, you think America will be gone? when? after the mid-terms or perhaps after 2012 - if you don't get the result you would like.

You should go to the Keep Fear Alive rally.

I missed the part where the dude dropped his pants. I'll have to check online for that one.

Shouldn't we teach our kids value regardless of which poltical party is in power? And ass kissing? Seriously? You support an ex-president named Bush and a VP named Dick and you are talking about ass kissing? Loooove it.

Anyway, you're probably right after all.

109

...Obama on Jon Stewart`s "Daily Show"...

by OUTLAW in

last night obama was a guest,on jon stewart`s "daily show"... stewart did`nt pull any punch`s... obama got a chance to say,what was on his mind... .

civil obama interview on 'daily show' cements stewart's talent, influence .

robert bianco usa today october 28, 2010. when it comes to interview gets, it doesn't get any better than sitting presidents.

TheListener

Only 1,000 likely votes were polled for that poll. Where and how were they chosen? Is a 1,000 a lot?

I want a president I can call dude one minute and yuck it up with and then have him bust a cap on some terrorists ass the next. kind of how I like my women.

109

...Obama on Jon Stewart`s "Daily Show"...

by OUTLAW in

last night obama was a guest,on jon stewart`s "daily show"... stewart did`nt pull any punch`s... obama got a chance to say,what was on his mind... .

civil obama interview on 'daily show' cements stewart's talent, influence .

robert bianco usa today october 28, 2010. when it comes to interview gets, it doesn't get any better than sitting presidents.

TheListener

Seriously, the name part is what matters - Bush and Dick. Elected officials in America called Bush and Dick! Come on. I can't be the only one to love sophmoric humor. If you asked average Americans throughout history if a president named Bush with a vp named Dick would get elected they would have arrested you for public indecency.

Forget the supreme court part, that was throwaway. Remember the name part - that was true blue humor.