there was a time that one could, if they dug deep enough, come up with the answer that jw’s teach that one is “saved” by grace or the nwt preferred “undeserved kindness.” for instance, in the reasoning book p. 360 under the heading “salvation” there is a sub-heading under the section, “if someone says”: ‘are you saved?’ here is what it says you could say if someone asks, “are you saved?’ you might reply: ‘so far, i am.’…….
the conclusion being, you are saved right now.
and yes, you need to remain faithful, but you are right now in a saved state.
They love to say they are saved by undeserved kindness but then as quickly as they can they flip to James and say but... we need to do these works.
Basically all the parts of the memorial talk that aren't about not partaking are about undeserved kindness being earned.
the start of a new memorial season is upon us.
saturday is the day for the start of the invites to look but not touch the bread and wine.
the "observer class" is a belief unique to jehovah's witnesses.. along with the invite to the masses a special effort is being made this year by the elders to invite all the df's, da's and faders.. along with the invite a copy of the rtj will be left with them.. naturally we will still be treated as pariah's if we do attend but it is the thought that counts.. i am of the "fader class" as i don't wish to rock the boat with my wife and extended family.
I have never gotten called on before the memorial. I wonder if they'll come by or not. I go to the memorial every year out of respect for my wife, the kids even go. We quietly laugh at a lot of the weirdos that show up (i know it's not kind but it is a real stress reliever) my wife does some holiday stuff for me and I do memorial for her.
I haven't gotten the RTJ tract and don't want it. I would probably take it and give it to my wife. That would be the path of least resistance. This would be one of the times where I just need to shut my mouth and not cause problems. Especially if I want to get laid after the memorial.
this is my first post.
i really feel i need to leave the jw's rather than go along pretending everything is perfect etc.
no friends, me at work.
Wow, PE I am glad you posted. You will get support here. And what's better is it will be from people who have been through similar circumstances and know how the org. works.
I agree with previous posters. Keep your thoughts to yourself for now. You're in a tough situation but not impossible. I faded and my wife is still a strong believer, so is her family and most of mine. It is possible to get through it in one piece.
Questions: Does your father in law still get into your business like he did earlier in the marriage? Or because of your wife's df'ing did he back off that and now just the elders in general are "concerned" about both of you?
Growing the beard definitely raised their suspicions, but how about your wife's? Does she know anything about your doubting the witnesses?
You're not an elder/MS so you have that going for you, that's a whole extra step that you avoided having to deal with - good job!
I wish you the best of luck.
one of the most common thing thrown at atheists is - lots of intelligent people believe in god.
this darkmatter 2525's video is an excellent explanation as to why very logical people possess religious belief systems.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y201qzddzbg.
Why is the board so focused on God vs atheism/evolution? It seems that the a large portion of our topics revolve around atheism vs. belief in God. Our beliefs are unique to ourselves and that should be something we celebrate. That's the freedom we achieved when we left our controlling life in the WTS.
The homepage of the discussion board in part says this "...provide a friendly, tolerant and informative environment where you can ask questions, share information and make new friends. Membership is completely free and anonymous so why not join today!"
I come here to share experiences based on the similarities we shared as witnesses and to be here when new ones need help and support and to find support for myself when my life goes wonky (and to see what's new in the JW world that my family is part of).
I know we don't all agree on our new beliefs since leaving the WTS but we should be celebrating our differences. Joy joy happy happy.
i never thought i would admit it, but i don't.
i might superstitiously have some kind of doubt but digging a bit deeper in my heart i really don't believe in god.
as a human i could never just sit and watch people be tortured, live years of abuse, suffer from illness and disabilities and all the other awful things people have to endure day after day without doing something about it.
SandL the forum has changed a lot in the last few years. Years ago there were a number of threads on witness theology and how incorrect they are/were. There were a lot of threads on the Bible and how the witnesses misinterpret it. As I was coming out of the witnesses this board was invaluable.
The board was really helpful to me because I felt that I needed to study each belief I had grown up with and understand if it was right or wrong and how. It's one thing to read an article or book on witness teachings and how they're wrong but it is so much more helpful (at least to me) to be able to ask questions, research and share information with others. If you look at some of my older threads you'll see me struggling with the idea of grace, the biblical timeline, birthdays, the cross/stake, Noah's supposed preaching, etc.
The board is still a very helpful place to those leaving the witnesses to turn to but it's just a bit more argumentative and secular now. We, and I'm in this group now too, seem to be more interested in the latest WT news and it's slow demise than we are discussing the theology and how it's incorrect. It's probably just a natural progression.
after the worst introduction i could ever make on the forum i would like to reintroduce myself and make a fresh start on the forum and hopefully over time i will be able to redeem myself.
i have changed my user name which was over dramatic and ridiculous in the cold light of day but for transparency and to show i am not trying to hide anything i have adapted the original name and it now has a more positive feel.
after reading a lot of posts on this forum i am feeling more optimistic about my future.
Welcome again FSL. Hang in there and keep working through each thorny issue of life.
I agree that trying to backtrack any statements that will start judicial actions should be first on your list of things to do. By keeping yourself from being shunned, at least for now, you will give yourself the time it takes to get a new job and maybe even find a new shared rental that will allow you to move out. Unfortunately once you have your ducks in a row and complete the fade many witnesses will shun you regardless of whether you are df'd or not. But, stay strong and each part of your life that you work on gives you the opportunity to meet new friends.
i am sorry that on my first post i am asking for help and advice but i am at my wits end.
i have been brought up a witness all my life and it is all i know.
i am an ex-elder and pioneer and i don't know anybody outside of the congregation.. i have been unhappy for so long and wanted to leave.
What do they call the Watchtower conductor now?
S&L - hang in there and take it day by day. I don't know your situation really well but I think first thing is try not to get disfellowshipped and don't DA yourself. That way you won't be asked to leave the family house or if you are asked maybe it will buy you some time first. Then work on getting a job that doesn't depend on the witnesses. It may not pay much but with public assistance you should be just about able to make ends meet. Then try to get some training so that you can get a better job. through all of this you should be meeting people who may become your friends.
This stuff takes time. Best of luck.
shucks only 90 teaching books trashed last week still there is a new week starting lol
"you don't go to church in a kingdom hall" was stated during the public talk yesterday.
the speaker then elaborated that "people who go to church, go to fulfill a spiritual obligation.
coming to the kingdom hall is coming to learn.
i follow chess players news, and there is an interesting development at a women's chess tournament in iran.
all the women, whether muslim or not, are required to wear a headcovering.
the news story and reader comments are at:.
