Posts by TheListener

9

Acts 1:24 - Kurios

by TheListener in

acts 1:24 in the nas reads "and they prayed and said, "you, lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two you have chosen".

the nwt says jehovah instead of lord.. the greek word translated lord or jesus (in some translations) or as jehovah by the wts is kurios.. can someone with the wts cd at hand tell me which manuscripts they state support this rendering?.

i have read the context and quite frankly it makes sense that it was jesus who they were talking to.

TheListener

I found a copy of the 1599 Elias Hutter bible at an Oxford University library.

If anyone lives over that way I'd sure like to know what his rationale was for using the tetragrammaton. I'm really hopeful that he provides an explanation in his preface or an appendix.

Here is the information I received from Oxford:

Elias Hutter, 1599

All Souls Library, ASC stacks 2nd; call: 2:SR.71.c.11 v.1

and

St. Johns STJ main library, call: C.3.11 v.1

If anyone who lives in the UK is near Oxford and can look this up that would be great.

9

Acts 1:24 - Kurios

by TheListener in

acts 1:24 in the nas reads "and they prayed and said, "you, lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two you have chosen".

the nwt says jehovah instead of lord.. the greek word translated lord or jesus (in some translations) or as jehovah by the wts is kurios.. can someone with the wts cd at hand tell me which manuscripts they state support this rendering?.

i have read the context and quite frankly it makes sense that it was jesus who they were talking to.

TheListener

thank you all for your replies.

Here is what I found (further to Narkissos post)

j7 - 1599 Elias Hutter - Hebrew translation of the greek text

j8 - 1661 William Robertson - revision of Elias Hutter's translation - Hebrew translation of Greek text

j10 - 1800 Dr. Richard Caddick - revision to William Robertson's revision to Elias Hutter's translation - Hebrew translation of Greek text

j22 - 1979 United Bible Societies - Hebrew translation of Greek text

j23 - 1978 J Bauchet - Hebrew translation of Greek text

j7, j8 and j10 are all related and revisions of the first (j7).

j22 and j23 are modern translations

I plan on reviewing the two modern translations to see how and why they chose their specific rendering of the word kurios at Acts 1:24.

9

Acts 1:24 - Kurios

by TheListener in

acts 1:24 in the nas reads "and they prayed and said, "you, lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two you have chosen".

the nwt says jehovah instead of lord.. the greek word translated lord or jesus (in some translations) or as jehovah by the wts is kurios.. can someone with the wts cd at hand tell me which manuscripts they state support this rendering?.

i have read the context and quite frankly it makes sense that it was jesus who they were talking to.

TheListener

Acts 1:24 in the NAS reads "And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen"

The NWT says Jehovah instead of Lord.

The Greek word translated Lord or Jesus (in some translations) or as Jehovah by the WTS is Kurios.

Can someone with the WTS cd at hand tell me which manuscripts they state support this rendering?

I have read the context and quite frankly it makes sense that it was Jesus who they were talking to. It was him they saw ascend into heaven, it was him who chose the original twelve apostles, and it was him who should rightly choose the successor to Judas.

13

praying to Jesus - an analogy

by TheListener in

jw
friends

for those who are christians,.

as a witness i never prayed to jesus and would have felt icky and evil had i done so.. .

as a christian who is no longer a jw i still haven't prayed to jesus.

TheListener

For those who are christians,

As a witness I never prayed to Jesus and would have felt icky and evil had I done so.

As a christian who is no longer a JW I still haven't prayed to Jesus. I feel I should. I feel I want to. But, the old dread is somehow still in me.

I have come up with an analogy that I think fits the situation of whether or not we should pray to Jesus (I like this specifically because it relies on common sense and not arguing Bible verses)

If you have a job chances are you have a boss. In all likelihood your boss also has a boss.

If you were to take all your work issues to your boss' boss and skip over communicating with your direct supervisor how would that be viewed by these two individuals?

You would be viewed in a negative light.

How is ignoring Jesus and talking directly to God any different?

OR

I've asked a dub this "who's your leader?" The answer of course was Jesus.

I then asked "have you ever talked to your leader?" They looked at me funny and said "no, but I talk to my leaders representatives." I

said "No, you have talked with the local representatives of your leaders representatives (governing body) and you talked to your leader's leader; but you've never actually talked to your leader. That's odd."

Any other analogies or arguments you've used to discuss this with a dub?

19

NEW! 2006 Worldwide Service Report

by Joker10 in

jw
friends

6,741,444 publishers in 99,770 congregations.. .

1,059,325 peak publishers in the lower u.s. this is a 2.3% increase.. south korea has yet, again, to post a zero or negative growth, and this being the most internet/ wired country in the world.

publishers are up another 1%.

TheListener

Hi Joker.

Even the society doesn't use peak publisher figures to determine increase/decrease percentages.

Have fun at your "Follow the Christ" district convention this summer.

24

How Jw's will begin to 'accept' blood doctrinally.

by AK - Jeff in

once upon a time, blood in any form was rejected by jw's.

then, over time, they morphed the policies to allow some 'fractions' or blood.

this allowed witnesses to get immunizations, treatments for hemophilia, etc.. in the past few years now, the policy is allowing greater 'definition' of 'fractions' - to the point where even bovine rbc's, altered to be called a 'fraction' now, due to processing the hemoglobin from the cells, for use.

TheListener

Nicely written Jeff. I'd love to see something like that come out in a wt or awake.

91

Watchtower Decline Confirmed - Only 1.9% growth in 2006!

by Neo in

jw
friends

the official watchtower 2006 service year report is not out yet, but i have it on good sources that this year's increase on publishers number is 1.9%.

the average number of publishers will be around 6,500,000. .

here's the % increase for this decade:.

TheListener

JWFacts,

Baptism to publisher ratio is what Brooklyn looks at. It has been steadily decreasing.

That's why we get new study books for new ones, that's why we have doorstep bible studies and that's why so much focus on foreign languages.

20

Help me understand God's will

by TheListener in

i am tired of being told that gods will is for there to be a paradise earth.

i have put the following scripture list together to .

help myself (and maybe others) in discussing what gods will is.. .

TheListener

Narkissos,

Yes, the search included modal auxilaries. Or as I learned them, helping verbs. My way doesn't sound as cool so now I'm adopting your way - modal auxilaries.

20

Help me understand God's will

by TheListener in

i am tired of being told that gods will is for there to be a paradise earth.

i have put the following scripture list together to .

help myself (and maybe others) in discussing what gods will is.. .

TheListener

Renee,

Thanks for the suggestion. I've been reading Ephesians and the first chapter really made me think about predestination. I'm not saying I agree with it but I would like to learn more about it. This book may be the right way.

I would also like to learn more about why some feel that Ephesians isn't talking about predestination; but that is for another thread and another day.

4

How did JWs react when told they could no longer worship Jesus in 1954?

by jwfacts in

jws used to worship jesus, but in 1954 the watchtower stated that this was idolatry.

does anyone know how jws reacted, or have figures to show if there was any decline in the number of publishers?.

from my point of view, the god of a religion is its most significant doctrine.

TheListener

I have been part of conversations that discussed this very subject. There was actually confusion.

An older well established brother felt that the WTS may not be positive on the point and shouldn't be so forceful in the condemnation.

Others felt that there was strong scriptural merit to the previous pre-1954 view.

Others of course couldn't believe it was even being discussed and the current view represented God's view - current light.