TheListener

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Posts by TheListener

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  36

  On our way to PA!!!

  by AuldSoul in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ice and snow flurries most of the way there, and bitterly cold ... but we are thrilled.. a bad day today thanks to my father.

  thanks, dad!

  your prayer didn't work.

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  TheListener

  I am so glad it all worked out.

  Your prayers really were answered.

  I wish you the best and can't wait to hear more news.

  When you get a chance please PM me your new phone number.
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  15

  Do JW's flout Romans 14:1?

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  romans 14:1 .

  nwt welcome the [man] having weaknesses in [his] faith, but not to make decisions on inward questionings.

  niv accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.

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  TheListener

  Also,

  Philippians 3:15 "All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained. " (NIV)
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  32

  They make mistakes just like 1st century christians did.

  by GBSJG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i'm discussing problems i have with the wts with my family they often say well they make mistakes just like the early christians did, they are not perfect.. i try to argue that if you think that way you can go to any christian church and say the same.

  but usually they say that compared to other religions the wts makes less mistakes so you should go there.. i know that such reasoning doesn't make sense to me but what is a good response to this?.

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  TheListener

  I read this point on the forum some time ago. I believe it was Auld Soul who wrote it. But, I could be wrong about that.

  What mistakes did the first century christians make after Jesus sent the helper (Holy Spirit) to them?

  All of their mistakes and misunderstandings about what Jesus said and meant happened before the Holy Spirit came and made all things clear.

  John 14:26 "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." (NIV)

  There was a running disagreement between some regarding physical/spiritual circumcision, however, that wasn't something they decided one way and then changed their mind on nor was it something individuals were kicked out of the congregation for.

  There may be other scriptures that are more pointed that I can't think of right now.

  If there is a witness rebuttal to this argument I would love to hear it so I can think of a rerebuttal.
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  6

  Grace versus Ephesians 4th & 5th Chapters

  by TheListener in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for those who are believers in god and the bible:.

  if we have god's grace and have been purchased by jesus shed blood why do we have to be careful not to do the things mentioned in ephesians and elsewhere in order to not be excluded from god's kingdom?.

  for example, ephesians tells us not to tell obscene jokes, or commit immorality, etc etc for if we do we will not inherit god's kingdom.

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  TheListener

  For those who are believers in God and the Bible:

  If we have God's Grace and have been purchased by Jesus shed blood why do we have to be careful not to do the things mentioned in Ephesians and elsewhere in order to not be excluded from God's Kingdom?

  For example, Ephesians tells us not to tell obscene jokes, or commit immorality, etc etc for if we do we will not inherit God's Kingdom. Yet, in Ephesians chapter 2 we are told that being saved has nothing to do with our own works but only by God's Grace.

  This seems to be a question I've been struggling with for some time. And no, it's not because I want to tell obscene jokes, commit immorality, etc etc and still make it into God's kingom - you sickos. Wait, is that possible?
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  69

  crisis of conscience

  by cyrus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi all ,got my copy today read 90 pages already ,so far very interesting and an eye opener rutherford comes across as a very dishonest man and a dictator.

  knorr comes across as very insecure.anyway back to it .have fun and i will let you know as i read more .dan

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  TheListener

  The Listener said,

  One thing I've learned since leaving the dubs; don't judge others (unless you have jury duty, or children, or a wife, or any other family, or perhaps at work with an employee or employer, or....well I don't know but judging isn't nice).

  Terry, I really didn't like the tone of your posts on this thread. I know, I know, that doesn't mean much.

  Ray Franz's books gave me the courage to break free from the witnesses. That is a gift I can never repay.

  Terry replied,

  Don't you get it? Personal integrity consists of telling the truth even when others are made uncomfortable or you yourself are put in an awkward position.

  My "tone" is clear. Nobody else points out these things because ONLY the good that Franz has done with his book is praised and all else ignored. I'm not judging him nor am I condemning him. I was answering a question raised under the discussion topic. I replied why I thought the "tone" of Crisis of Conscience was creepy.

  Can we ever get to a point we tell things "like it is" without tip-toeing?

  I have a couple thoughts on this. I tried to be forthright and tactful in saying that I didn't like the tone of your posts about Ray. We may disagree but I didn't beat around the bush, I was honest, forthright and clear. I thought. You may feel that you are not judging him or condeming but I feel that is exactly the tone your posts have taken. I don't feel like taking the time to copy/paste each statement you made wherein you made assumptions of Ray's possible choices and outcomes for different actions or how and what he felt like. I think that is unfair of you. Some have stated that they are disappointed that Ray wrote in support of the 607 date while knowing it was unsupportable. That is an opinion and who can say they are wrong for it? Isn't that the point of holding an opinion on a subject where feelings and emotions are involved? Was Ray wrong? right? Did the members of the dub body benefit or suffer based on Ray's decisions? The answers to these questions could be debated until time ends (if it ever does) but a conclusion could never be reached because the discussions would be based on personal feelings. It appears to me as I read your posts, and I say appears to me to indicate that I clearly may be incorrect and it may appear otherwise to someone else, that you do not agree with how Ray handled his Crisis of Conscience and all of the bits and pieces of political intrigue that went along with it. OK fair enough. I equally disagree and feel, based on my own anecdotal evidence that he did the best he could given the circumstances given - of course anecdotal evidence won't sway anyone - but it's good enough for me. AS and Terry - your discussion has taxed my dictionary and tired my brain. Please stop doing that. :)
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  57

  Governing Body Going After eBay

  by Gary1914 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello everyone.. i don't if this has been posted before.

  if it has i apologize, but maybe my version will add to what is already known.. my brother is a district overseer.

  the society sometimes places conferences calls to do's, co's and other overseers, especially when it is something that they do not want to put in writing.

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  TheListener

  Forget Ebay!

  Gary, your brother is a DO and he hangs out with you?

  I think you should be careful what you post.

  or

  I think you should sneak around his house (or wherever they are living) and bookbag and computer and copy everything you can get your hands on. Ooops. Bad idea. My bad. Sorry.
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  33

  i take some C.O. for a hour and half ride

  by johnny cip in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (not telling where) into an hour and half conversation.

  he knew his aposatate stuff.

  it was heavy.

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  TheListener

  More info CIP. We need details.
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  69

  crisis of conscience

  by cyrus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi all ,got my copy today read 90 pages already ,so far very interesting and an eye opener rutherford comes across as a very dishonest man and a dictator.

  knorr comes across as very insecure.anyway back to it .have fun and i will let you know as i read more .dan

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  TheListener

  One thing I've learned since leaving the dubs; don't judge others (unless you have jury duty, or children, or a wife, or any other family, or perhaps at work with an employee or employer, or....well I don't know but judging isn't nice).

  Terry, I really didn't like the tone of your posts on this thread. I know, I know, that doesn't mean much.

  Ray Franz's books gave me the courage to break free from the witnesses. That is a gift I can never repay.
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  28

  Lack of gatherings means the congregation only exists in the Kingdom Hall

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is the situation with my congregation and i wonder if it is the same with yours.. as many of you know, the watchtower is not known for organising social gatherings of any kind for relaxation or enjoyment.. many of us only come into contact with witnesses while going to meetings and going out on field service.. as soon as you leave the hall, the congregation ceases to exist, in my mind anyway.. when you go back to the hall, the congregation exists, but only for the time you are there.. think about it - you spend 2 hours sitting and perhaps 10 minutes talking during each meeting.

  if you have no friends in the hall that you see on a regular basis, then you feel like you're on your own until the next meeting.. .

  my point is this: for those who still go but are not invited out anywhere, particularly if they are fading, do you feel that the congregation only exists in the kingdom hall?

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  TheListener

  It's a double edged sword for the WTS.

  If they encourage get togethers the likelihood of individuals doing inappropriate stuff grows AND people talk and share their feelings more openly with those they are close to - more frequent and church organized get togethers draw people together.

  This is definitely an individual congregation thing. Some are loving and active and others are cold and almost anti-social.

  You have to be the right person at the right KH in order to have a full social life.

  BUT,

  Even for those that do have full social lives none of it is organized and sanctioned by the WTS. There are no open houses (after dedication) of KH or official goody nights at bookstudy or sunday school or men's club or mother's club or anything. Why don't KH's have small playgrounds for the children - then they would have adults and children associating with each other and building each other up.

  BECAUSE

  When dubs get together too much and become too comfortable they may start to wake up. The more sanctioned gatherings there are that aren't completely controlled the greater chance that non-conformist thoughts would hit the group.
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  25

  For my hairy argument...

  by Inquisitor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can anyone come up with names of some famous people (dead or alive doesn't matter), respectable men (sorry ladies, but a bearded lady wouldn't help my case), who've grown beards or kept a moustache?

  thank you.. inq.

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  TheListener

  C. Everett Koop - former US Surgeon General

  Paul Wolfowitz - Former Deputy Secretary of Defense (heads up World Bank or something now)