Posts by inquirer

120

Cross or a Stake - which was it?

by KAYTEE in

we were always lead to believe, when we belonged to the jws, that jesus died on a "stake".

was this really true or did he die on a cross as all other religions appear to believe.

if it was a cross, what on earth did the jws get out of saying otherwise.

inquirer

The problem is the Vine's Dictionary says the primary meaning of it is "upright stake." They are so adiment of this!

120

Cross or a Stake - which was it?

by KAYTEE in

we were always lead to believe, when we belonged to the jws, that jesus died on a "stake".

was this really true or did he die on a cross as all other religions appear to believe.

if it was a cross, what on earth did the jws get out of saying otherwise.

inquirer

...The problem is, and I'll admit this, it's a subtle difference: it's either the 3:45 hands (going anti clock wise...) or 12 midnight -- which is the right way?

120

Cross or a Stake - which was it?

by KAYTEE in

we were always lead to believe, when we belonged to the jws, that jesus died on a "stake".

was this really true or did he die on a cross as all other religions appear to believe.

if it was a cross, what on earth did the jws get out of saying otherwise.

Leolaia,

Hmmm, a lot of you scans are hard to read. Hurts my eyes just looking at them! Could you enlarge them? Even with a special option on my browser to enlarge them even more only makes the text blurry.

The last scans are ok, but I would have liked to have read the other earlier ones too.

It's something to consider but I have been brought up to believe for so long that he died on a torture stake. It's not just something where I go "flip the switch." Not everyone can accept the divine name in the Greek Scriptures either. You really have to think about all these things.

I got a scanner, and a good paint program. I know you can scan these things and make them large. I think this is an important point and I think you should enlarge them more! Even if ended up not agreeing with you, others would!

120

Cross or a Stake - which was it?

by KAYTEE in

we were always lead to believe, when we belonged to the jws, that jesus died on a "stake".

was this really true or did he die on a cross as all other religions appear to believe.

if it was a cross, what on earth did the jws get out of saying otherwise.

inquirer

Impaled on a stae.
Apparently "stauros" originally meant (in that era) an upright stake, only. I... agree with the JW's.

NWT
5C “Torture Stake”

The inspired writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures wrote in the common (koi·ne´) Greek and used the word stau·ros´ to mean the same thing as in the classical Greek, namely, a simple stake, or pale, without a crossbeam of any kind at any angle. There is no proof to the contrary. The apostles Peter
and Paul also use the word xy´lon to refer to the torture instrument upon which Jesus was nailed, and this shows that it was an upright stake without a crossbeam, for that is what xy´lon in this special sense means. (Ac 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Ga 3:13; 1Pe 2:24) In LXX we find xy´lon in Ezr 6:11 (1 Esdras
6:31), and there it is spoken of as a beam on which the violator of law was to be hanged, the same as in Ac 5:30; 10:39.

The Latin dictionary by Lewis and Short gives as the basic meaning of crux “a tree, frame, or other wooden instruments of execution, on which criminals were impaled or hanged.” In the writings of Livy, a Roman historian of the first century B.C.E., crux means a mere stake. “Cross” is only a later meaning of crux. A single stake for impalement of a criminal was called in Latin crux sim´plex. One such instrument of torture is illustrated by Justus Lipsius (1547-1606) in his book De cruce libri tres, Antwerp, 1629, p. 19. The photograph of the crux simplex on our p. 1578 is an actual reproduction from his book.

Also have a look at these links! Some of them are unsure!

http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.show/CT/RA/k/360

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_symb.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04517a.htm look under II. -- common form of torture

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/crosstak.htm -- either could be right!

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/newworldtranslation/stauros.htm -- sorry this is a JW site I think. I always prefer "worldly" web pages to prove my point so we are not biased.

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek/1999-December/009160.html -- no proof he died on a cross...

http://spl.haxial.net/religion/cross/ -- interesting. Against the cross... (He quotes the famoust Vine's dictionary)

http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Scriptures/www.innvista.com/scriptures/compare/heathenb.htm

http://www.answers.com/topic/christian-cross -- he quotes from the Vine's dictionary at the end anyway.

http://experts.about.com/q/1617/4044677.htm -- just provides the answer.

http://www.nazarite.net/king-james.html

http://sermons.trbc.org/20040229.html

http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/What_is_the_symbolic_meaning_of_the_Cross

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Responses/Menj/stauros.htm -- If you read the last paragraph this is the main point he is trying to make.
http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77/ -- the Babylonian Talmud simply said he was "hanged." If you look at that section.But Josephus says otherwise.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/talmud.html -- the last paragraph is of interest.They are unsure again!
http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/hist/talmud.html -- unsure!

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/chap5.html -- unsure!

It seems as if a lot of people are unsure on what he died on! Hmmm Interesting... I'll just say he died on a stake for now!

13

Who's the Pope of the Jehovah's Witnesses now?

by inquirer in

i have seen on the 2nd page of the watchtower m. h. larson.... what's his first name?

is he the "pope?

i have forgotten a lot of things about jw structure.

inquirer

DON ADAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "YOU MISSED THE TRUTH BY THAT MUCH!"

23

Similarities between Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses!

by inquirer in

http://www.bible.ca/jw-catholic.htm .

-- great site in general check it out!

1. centralized world-wide church government from which all official doctrine comes.

inquirer

I MUST STRESS THE OBVIOUS DIFFERENCES so people won't take the wrong meaning of me!!!

These are things JW's would NEVER DO!

CRUCIFIXES
TRINITY
IMAGES
CATHOLIC WORKMEN'S CLUBS
FIGHTING IN WAR TIME
MARY WORSHIP
NUNS WEARING "VEIL SUITS"/PRIESTS WEARING "PRIEST SUITS."
APOCRYPHA
ACCEPT BLOOD MEDICALLY
HELL FIRE
PERGATORY

23

Similarities between Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses!

by inquirer in

http://www.bible.ca/jw-catholic.htm .

-- great site in general check it out!

1. centralized world-wide church government from which all official doctrine comes.

inquirer

Midget-Sasquatch

Alright give me all the examples from Roman Catholicism that you can come up with. Bear in mind they've been around for nearly two millenia. Even if you could come up with a handful, wouldn't that be like comparing a dripping faucet to a gushing fountain?

Inq -- Well, don't you agree with the similarities I posted? Remember it was a site that I found. I didn't say it. I thought about before I saw this site and then I was surprised that someone agreed with me.

OF COURSE THERE ARE OBVIOUS DIFFERENCES! But get this. They agree that the proper name of God is Jehovah!

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08329a.htm
Jehovah (Yahweh)

The proper name of God in the Old Testament; hence the Jews called it the name by excellence, the great name, the only name, the glorious and terrible name, the hidden and mysterious name, the name of the substance, the proper name, and most frequently shem hammephorash, i.e. the explicit or the separated name, though the precise meaning of this last expression is a matter of discussion (cf. Buxtorf, "Lexicon", Basle, 1639, col. 2432 sqq.).

Jehovah occurs more frequently than any other Divine name. The Concordances of Furst ("Vet. Test. Concordantiae", Leipzig, 1840) and Mandelkern ("Vet. Test. Concordantiae", Leipzig, 1896) do not exactly agree as to the number of its occurrences; but in round numbers it is found in the Old Testament 6000 times, either alone or in conjunction with another Divine name. The Septuagint and the Vulgate render the name generally by "Lord" (Kyrios, Dominus), a translation of Adonai—usually substituted for Jehovah in reading.
__

I know this was the 1914 edition and later in the French-based New Jerusalem Bible and the New American Bible use the term Yahweh, it still says it! They would have known a lot about JW's at that time and had no problem using it then!

Even that's a similarity! Catholics have been more accepting of putting the divine name in their Bible since the late 1900's!

So there is another similarity for you!

I think even the way they vote on the GB is similiar to Catholics... That 2/3 majority rule? I don't know about that one.

Their preaching methods are frietenly different! But they are both very active in the world community. Everyone knows this!

23

Similarities between Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses!

by inquirer in

http://www.bible.ca/jw-catholic.htm .

-- great site in general check it out!

1. centralized world-wide church government from which all official doctrine comes.

inquirer

sALLYsUE

A big DIFFERENCE

JW's HATE Catholics BUT Catholics do NOT hate JW's...

Inq -- I'd have to disagree with that. Historically, Catholics have gone out and killed people ALL who didn't share their beliefs... Wycliffe, Luther... and burn people at the stake.... They hate everyone too who's not Catholic in my opinion.

23

Similarities between Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses!

by inquirer in

http://www.bible.ca/jw-catholic.htm .

-- great site in general check it out!

1. centralized world-wide church government from which all official doctrine comes.

inquirer

POLE --
Ok, what about the differences? My favourite one is this:

I have no major problems living in a 95% catholic country as an ex-Catholic.

Imagine living in a country where 95% are active dubs and you are an ex-one.

I think that says it all. Catholicism as a whole is a mainstream religion with minor cult-like varieties, JWs are a cult as a whole with some individuals beign more mainstream than the majority.

I don't give a rat's ass about the other doctrinal differences. Of course one can get excited about them if one's bent on proving the supreme nature of being a protestant. Have fun.

Pole

Inq--
Hi Pole,

I didn't mean get anybody annoyed, I just posted that because JW's always make out they are different and clearly they are not!

Aren't you surprised by the similarities? This guy also says on his site MOST JW'S WERE CATHOLICS!

13

Who's the Pope of the Jehovah's Witnesses now?

by inquirer in

i have seen on the 2nd page of the watchtower m. h. larson.... what's his first name?

is he the "pope?

i have forgotten a lot of things about jw structure.

inquirer

Yeah but what does M. H. Stand for? I rechecked it. It says he's the president.

Just interested in knowing what his name is.