dear brothers and sisters, servants of god, jehovah's witnesses, ex-jw's, opposers, apostates, and athiests.. jehovah's witnesses need your help.
i would like to thank you for all the work you have done so far.
we need as many critics as we can get.
Christian has his own responsibility to Jesus Christ, nobody else, neither to any Body (of elders, Governing Body, Organization, nor to any Co-Op ...). It is individual responsibility. You can not say to Jesus Christ or Jehovah that you deserve to be saved because you belongs to this that ...bla bla... Co-Op . Can you ?
jwsons,
Good point.
dear brothers and sisters, servants of god, jehovah's witnesses, ex-jw's, opposers, apostates, and athiests.. jehovah's witnesses need your help.
i would like to thank you for all the work you have done so far.
we need as many critics as we can get.
Jgnat,
Hello
Commendable aspirations,
Thanks
lousy implementation strategy.
What is the implementation strategy? And what would be a better way?
I have a few concerns, which I hope you will address.
Thank you for sharing them with me
Please stop using the royal "we", unless you are the official spokesman of your entire co-op. You can speak authoritatively about your own thoughts and feelings. You have not earned the right to speak for others.
Seems I have used the royal "we" only once. Here it is in context;
Dear brothers and sisters, servants of God, Jehovah's witnesses, Ex-JW's, opposers, apostates, and athiests.
Jehovah's witnesses need your help. I would like to thank you for all the work you have done so far. We need as many critics as we can get. We as Jehovah's witnesses extend our thanks and would like you to continue your efforts and even encourage you to examine us even closer.
We need to understand all the problems that we are faced with by corporate religion. Not repeating symptoms like some partisian hack. But rather seeking to define the 'real' or root problem which causes the others.
This royal we is used in line with the representation of the principles of the Jehovah's witness co-operative. The principles themselves are the "offical spokesman" of the entire co-op. Anyone that repeats the principles of the JW co-op are and can be spokesmen of the offical principles. It's not about personalities that somehow get voted in that are supposed to be offical spokesman. It's about the principles themselves which get voted in and therefore each JW co-op member is an offical spokesman. Very different from the corporate paradigm. That is in the corporate paradigm "offical spokesman" often say things that are against Jehovah's witness priciples. The principles supersed the person speaking.
You have chosen to fully understand the WTBTS in order to reform it. I maintain that a reformer must first fully understand himself.
I am not reforming the Watchtower corporation. The "society" is not the Jehovah's witnesses. It is a small group of "witnesses" that claim to represent us. I have no intention of reforming this elite group.
As for understanding myself; I am a story I often tell. I understand the inreality of self.
Have you thoroughly examined your own motives?
I can always do some more examining.
Do you know what your weak spots are?
I am hoping you will point those out.
If you do learn how to move large masses of people in the direction you want to go, what will you do with that power?
I was thinking of this the other day. The only thing I can reply is reliquish the power. Being one of the founding members I believe I will try to say that founding members cannot be allowed to be voted into positions of power. What ever that means or can mean. It may also be possible to never have positions of power in the first place. We will see. What do you think?
I would be most interested on your opinion of this article. http://struggle.ws/ws99/portugal58.html
Pretty intresting article thanks for sharing it. Lots of things to consider. I don't have an opinion. How do you feel about it?
Better to light one small candle than to curse the darkness.
http://polemotheos.home.comcast.net/JWco-op.html
lately on this board there has been a couple of threads that show how much the watchtower is being effected by the open communication of the internet and web sites like this one.
they are changing long time policy and trying new ways of getting their religious product to the market.
no longer do their leaders hear the voice of god and then pass it directly on as unwavering guidance to their customers.
It is my opinion you are using this thread to continue to promote your JW offshoot agenda
It is true I would like Jehovah's witnesses to be united. My agenda is to worship God in peace with my brothers and sisters. I am starting to see that you do not like that idea. Maybe it is in conflict with your JW disunity agenda. So I get censored. Calling this a Jehovah's witness web forum is disingenuous at best. But maybe that is your intention to be disingenuous.
Are you afriad that Jehovah's witnesses can actually learn from you, change our ways so that you then have nothing to say about us except that we worship God? That would ruin your whole agenda would it not? This seems to be the reason you censor me.
Your co-op web page talks about open dialog but it is obvious your mind has not caught up with the full spirit of that concept and it's true meaning.
If you are going to say your my example for open dialog and then edit my posts I start to wonder. :)
You seem to be a somewhat bright kid
Thanks Dave I find you equally illuminating.
If you really want the truth about religion, do some research on the many similarities of all the god heroes I briefly mentioned and see if you can unlock your mind and possibly grasp the bigger picture and the universal and historical manipulation of religion, especially yours . That is, if you are the least bit curious about "the real truth." Until then, take care.
While knowing the same facts we draw different conclusions.
Peace and love,
Mars
lately on this board there has been a couple of threads that show how much the watchtower is being effected by the open communication of the internet and web sites like this one.
they are changing long time policy and trying new ways of getting their religious product to the market.
no longer do their leaders hear the voice of god and then pass it directly on as unwavering guidance to their customers.
As I said several post's ago, you seem like a nice kid
Thanks Dave, I have enjoyed our interchange you have encouraged me to continue on. I have learned allot from you. Maybe one day we can trust each other.
lately on this board there has been a couple of threads that show how much the watchtower is being effected by the open communication of the internet and web sites like this one.
they are changing long time policy and trying new ways of getting their religious product to the market.
no longer do their leaders hear the voice of god and then pass it directly on as unwavering guidance to their customers.
So you made the choice between organized crime and god? You don't have the intelligence or depth of character to find some kind of balance in your life between the two? Do you take everything to that extreme? I'll bet it's a real bitch for you just ordering a cup of coffee at Starbucks isn't it.
Dave, many people would say I am extreme in many aspects. I only eat organic vegan food. I try my best not to watch corporate controlled media. I try my best not to watch the vomit we call entertainment that's found at the movie theators. Though I do enjoy a good fereinhight 9/11 or weapons of mass disception once in a while.
By the way I don't drink coffee. It's one of the most abused drugs in the world (caffine).
I feel that if I am to worship God I need to do it whole souled not half or partial. You may call me extreme in that way.
lately on this board there has been a couple of threads that show how much the watchtower is being effected by the open communication of the internet and web sites like this one.
they are changing long time policy and trying new ways of getting their religious product to the market.
no longer do their leaders hear the voice of god and then pass it directly on as unwavering guidance to their customers.
I ate lunch with brother Losch, sat right next to him and spoke to him for an hour and he had no mofia guard members there to protect them. :)
Since you can't trust anything I say and you don't like to be proven wrong, I won't worry about it.
lately on this board there has been a couple of threads that show how much the watchtower is being effected by the open communication of the internet and web sites like this one.
they are changing long time policy and trying new ways of getting their religious product to the market.
no longer do their leaders hear the voice of god and then pass it directly on as unwavering guidance to their customers.
Dave,
Good investigative questions.
1. How old were you when you went from being an evil person that society had to saved from, to an all knowing JW?
I have never become all knowing never will. I became a JW at the age of 18. I knew that either I would serve God or serve myself. Which most likely ment organized crime and things of that nature. I realize though that many people arent criminal personalities like I was. None the less there are many benifits to no longer living or telling the story of "me". If you are wondering what that means you may enjoy reading; http://www.gangaji.org/satsang/library/yat.asp
2. When did you meet face to face with three governing body members, and have an hour lunch with one of them? Who were they (names, places, and time, please) and how did you get meetings with them when we all know how difficult that would be to do?
It would be difficult to meet with them seeing that they are so busy. On the other hand usually one of them go to the conventions and often dedications of the kingdom halls and convention centers. You can find them in the office or ask tell a brother that you would like to talk the visiting gb member. If he is not busy you would most likely be entertained. You can always catch one at a bethel meeting during the lunch period of I believe the saturday sesion. My congregation built a double kingdom hall and Brother Losch was the one that gave the dedication speach. While they are in our 'territory' they are taken care of by us. We take them out to eat, out to 'field service' etc. They are human and have good intentions.
3. You ask me where I get my historical facts. The public library and book stores. Where do you get yours?
Maybe you can re-check your historical facts on the textus receptus.
***For being so unimportant it is amazing to have thousands of people spend so much time talking about us in chat rooms and web forums.*** 4. You made the statement above. Who is "US" the JW'S or your JW co-op? Is the JW co-op considered an apostate group by the JW's and when did you join it and how long have you been in it?
"US" is Jehovah's witnesses seeing that this forum is called Jehovah's witnesses. :)
The JW co-op is not considered an apostate group by JW's because it means merily co-operation amoung JW's. I believe we hold that disunity is apostate. Which happens to be the opposite of co-operation. What the watchtower corporation would label it I do not know. It doesnt really work against or for them so I don't know.
The JW co-op has just started. I am one of the founding members. We have not even defined what a Jehovah's witness is yet so there really is not a so called membership. Yet we do have four Jehovah's witness congregations on the internet. This is a model for things to come. Even then I believe there is the possiblity of making non-JW's members as well. Seeing that non-witnesses can keep us in check and humble. Like yourself.
Your analysis of the watchtower corporation is an example the sort of genius we need.
Give it a year or two after the basics have been defined and we will see something remarkable. There is also some communication technology such as wiki tools and rating forums in the works. Or at least in the dreams.
lately on this board there has been a couple of threads that show how much the watchtower is being effected by the open communication of the internet and web sites like this one.
they are changing long time policy and trying new ways of getting their religious product to the market.
no longer do their leaders hear the voice of god and then pass it directly on as unwavering guidance to their customers.
thanks for your response pole.
Your so welcome and thanks for yours.
I only continue to talk religion ,because I feel it has a destructive influence on people in general.
I personally was a very evil person. Thanks to Jehovah's witnesses for teaching me about Jehovah they have saved society from me and people like me.
Saying religion is a destructive influence is little more than a false generalization.
That's like saying water is evil because we can die from inhaling it. As water supports and sustains life so does re-connecting (Latin religio) to our source. Yet, drownding in the traditions of men is deadly. So, disernment is needed.
I only can relate my personal pain and strangeness from growing up in the controlling jehovahs witness cult.
While I was not raised entirely as a Jehovah's witness I have experienced the pain and strangeness peticular to corporate contolled worship. It's not a healthy thing and I am glad to be part of a brotherhood that is seeking the solution. I also thank you for your help.
I believe people should look inward,not outward,at how to go about changing things.
You have it right. Changing yourself is changing the world because we are all connected to each other.
I don't think you need some questionable book of fables to justify doing whats right or wrong.
Right and wrong or universal truths can be justified by evidence alone. I think the Bible itself just points us in the right direction.
I appreciate your opinion. best of luck in your endeavors. STP
I enjoy our discussion. Peace an love,
Mars
Prophets turn to typhoons blaze when God does man amaze.
http://polemotheos.home.comcast.net/JWco-op.html
lately on this board there has been a couple of threads that show how much the watchtower is being effected by the open communication of the internet and web sites like this one.
they are changing long time policy and trying new ways of getting their religious product to the market.
no longer do their leaders hear the voice of god and then pass it directly on as unwavering guidance to their customers.
Are you refering to the textus receptus itself or the new method of printing of the greek manuscript in 1516?
Steve,
The textus receptus itself was completed in 1516.
lately on this board there has been a couple of threads that show how much the watchtower is being effected by the open communication of the internet and web sites like this one.
they are changing long time policy and trying new ways of getting their religious product to the market.
no longer do their leaders hear the voice of god and then pass it directly on as unwavering guidance to their customers.
Stop the pain,
I notice your my peer.
pole,I don't remember anyone talking about how old you are.No one cares how old you are.
I was just trying to figure out why I was being called so uninformed. I guessed it had to do with the age fallacy but it was just a guess.
You seem the need to feel self important or that you can change the world, jehovahs witness and ex jws.
Do you get this impression from the Co-op home page where it says; "At the JW co-op, your spiritual wisdom, knowledge, and creativity is empowered to help change the world."
I truly believe this. By inspiring each other with creativitly, love, kindness and beauty ... we change the world. That has little to do with self identification.
Dave made a great post on how they have changed thier marketing scheme,wich they have. You try to twist it around.Would jesus ever get in a battle of wits
eerm did Jesus kick the money changers out of the temple?
with someone he couldn't speak to face to face?
I have written letters to all the governing body and have spoken to three of them face to face and have eaten dinner with one for an hour. They read most if not all my comments especially when they get sticky. They have already printed rebuttal artical in responce to some essays I helped to develope.
All you religous zealots are just a bunch of insecure,unimportant people who think thier special because they recite jesus.
For being so unimportant it is amazing to have thousands of people spend so much time talking about us in chat rooms and web forums.
love your nieghbor as yourself and love your family or children and wife someday.Then you can at least die happy.
Amen. Yes and live happy. You know who you sound like there ah never mind. :)
Prophets turn to typhoons blaze when God does man amaze.
http://polemotheos.home.comcast.net/JWco-op.html
