Bruce144

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Posts by Bruce144

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  11

  Lyman Swingle bites the big taco!

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i received this e mail tonight...thought you might like to see.... sent: wednesday, march 14, 2001 9:01 am.

  subject: bro.

  lyman swingle.

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• 

  Bruce144

  Testing to see where this additonal post shows up?/
• 

  Answers to questions about 144,000

  by Bruce144 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my explanation about the 144,000 and story went under newbies the first time i posted here and not read by many.

  i try my best to answer individual questio.

  ns which is extremely difficult because of having als.

• 

  Bruce144

  Hi all,
  My explanation about the 144,000 and story went under newbies the first time I posted here and not read by many. I try my best to answer individual questio
  ns which is extremely difficult because of having ALS. I can only type a few words before my one active finger gives out. In consideration of more questions under the last 144,000 posting, the entire post about the animals are following. It's a long read, but especially read the inspired poem. Thank you, and may Jehovah bless you for your individual effort of checking the truth.
• 
  1

  144,000 explained

  by Bruce144 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we are a small group dedicated to proclaiming jehovah's kingdom both of the 144,000 in heaven and a perfect world for the rest of perfect mankind.. but, we cannot agree entirely with the societies view of why only the 144,000 go to heaven and their wrong count of the animals taken into noah's ark.. we use biblical and scientific reasoning in believing that the 144,000 are going to heaven to replace the sinning angels.

  we use only the bible and the societies publications to prove our point about the proper animal count.. we realize you are instructed not to read other than watchtower material, yet jehovah instructs us to make sure of all things.

  if you only take the time to read verses 8 and 9 of genesis 7, you will have to agree that both the clean and unclean animals went into the ark two by two or by twos, for the total number of 14 for the clean animals as shown in verse 2, male and female by sevens.. the society says, that only the unclean animals went in by twos.

  1. 
• 

  Bruce144

  We are a small group dedicated to proclaiming Jehovah's kingdom both of the 144,000 in heaven and a perfect world for the rest of perfect mankind.

  But, we cannot agree entirely with the Societies view of why only the 144,000 go to heaven and their wrong count of the animals taken into Noah's ark.

  We use biblical and scientific reasoning in believing that the 144,000 are going to heaven to replace the sinning angels. We use only the Bible and the Societies publications to prove our point about the proper animal count.

  We realize you are instructed not to read other than Watchtower material, yet Jehovah instructs us to make sure of all things. If you only take the time to read verses 8 and 9 of Genesis 7, you will have to agree that both the clean and unclean animals went into the ark two by two or by twos, for the total number of 14 for the clean animals as shown in verse 2, male and female by sevens.

  The Society says, that only the unclean animals went in by twos. Friends, it only takes a minute to read those two verses without coming to the conclusive answer that both the clean and unclean animals went in two by two as verse 9 says.

  Please locate a copy of an older edition of My Book of Bible Stories and compare it with a newer edition. The older editions printed 2,000,000 copies, the newer edition printed up to 40,500,000 additional copies. Many of the earlier editions were placed in many of the local libraries by the Witnesses. If you can't find a copy, please check your library.

  First look at story nine, the cats were removed and wolverines were drawn in. The birds on the roof are smaller. Two of the male sheep were turned into females by removing their horns. Many other changes were made throughout the book by the artist, to show people that story nine was changed. Have your children go through both books, page by page, and see the changes.

  In 1988, the wrong animal count was brought to the Societies attention and they changed two of the males to females. They are finally going to have to admit that 14 clean animals went into the ark. But, they are going to say that they went by groups of two, five females and two males in one group and five males and two females in another group.

  If they continued to show three pair and one extra male as their other publications show, then there would be eight males and only six females. A simple but honest mistake was made years ago, and the Governing Body refuses to admit it.

  The following publications show that the Society believes that only seven of the clean animals went into the ark.
  1. "New Heavens and a New Earth" page 102, par. 3, 1953
  2. Watchtower, Feb 15, 1954 under Questions from Readers.
  3. From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, page 40, 1958.
  4. My Book of Bible Stories, story nine, 1978.
  5. Insight on the Scriptures, page 164, 1988.

  In the Feb. 8, 1997 Awake article on page 26 under the heading The Flood, Fact or Fable?, the Governing Body changed the quote from "The clean and unclean went in two by two" to 'And all the animals went into the ark to Noah, two by two.' They paraphrased or put it into their own words avoiding the word clean. When asked where the quote came from, they lied and said, from the 1971 NASB.

  Friends, not one translation of the Bible omits the word clean in verse 8, except when quoted wrong as in the Awake article! Every Bible written, every children's book written about the flood, shows or states that both the clean and unclean went in two by two.

  The book, New Heavens and a New Earth and the 1954 Watchtower, points out that the odd or seventh animals sacrificed after the flood foreshadows the sacrifice of Jesus. How can this be true, when there wasn't any odd male?

  We all owe it to ourselves, as true witnesses of Jehovah, to make sure of all things, regardless of who gets insulted.

  Following is a list of biblical and scientific facts, pointing out the reason, why we believe the 144,000 were chosen to replace the wicked angels.

  1. Fourteen each of the clean kind were taken into the ark, twelve of those animals represent the 144,000.

  2. The 24 elders in Revelation are 2 groups of 12, and not one group of 24.

  3. Satan and the other wicked angels make up a third of this total group, numbering 36 legions. 12 is a divinely constituted arranged number by Jehovah.

  4. When Jesus spoke of more than 12 legions of angels at Matt. 26:53, he was telling us how they are grouped in their heavenly places.

  5. The six winged angels shown to be with the 24 elders throughout Revelation are seraphim, not cherubs as the Society shows in their publications. Isa.6:2 and Rev. 4:8 verifies this fact.

  6. This order of rank among the heavenly hosts are 3 groups of 12 legions each numbering 144,000 or 12,000 to each legion. The elders are cherubs as was Satan, being one of twelve. The four angels with them are seraphim's having 6 wings, higher in rank than the 4 winged cherubs.

  7. When Jesus told the apostles he was going to heaven to prepare a place for them he did just that, as Michael. Rev.12, shows a third or twelve of the thirty-six legions was cast down to the earth. It goes on to say there was no longer a place for them. Now, it says, comes the kingdom of God and the power of Christ. Jesus is now sitting on the throne of his own glory, able now to call those to heaven, starting with the twelve apostles the foundation stones of the heavenly church.

  8. Until the heavens were cleansed by getting rid of the sinning angels, there was no place for the ones that died in the first century to go to. The mystery that Paul alluded to in 1Cor. 15, shows that they had to sleep in death before going to heaven whereas the remnant starting with Russell, could go immediately once the angels were cast out in 1914. The places were now prepared!

  9. Only by knowing that twelve of the fourteen clean animals symbolize the 144,000 can we make complete sense of their implication at the flood. Jehovah uses animals to symbolize people. He purposely destroyed some of his animal kingdom, those animals left behind symbolize the bodies of the fallen angels used to produce their own giant offspring. Those animals were the mastodon, saber-toothed tiger, mammoth, giant ground sloth, woolly rhinoceros and species of birds. They were destroyed to show us that the wicked angels could never again take on fleshly bodies. They were placed in chains of darkness until their judgment day.

  10. In place of the animals God destroyed, he told Noah now to take not only two of the clean animals as told in Gen. 6, but now twelve extra of the clean animals and birds. Those animals are the sheep, goats, antelope, deer, cattle and seven types of game birds. They represent the 144,000 to be taken from the Jews first and then the Gentiles after Jesus death. These clean animals were a replacement for the ones left behind. Jehovah cleansed the earth using animals to symbolize the bad angels and the 144,000, those that would spiritually replace the bad angels once Jesus, as Michael, cleansed the heavens by throwing them to the earth.

  11. Jehovah also destroyed giant sized animals, the ones we call dinosaurs. They symbolize the giants produced by the fallen angels when they impregnated the daughters of men. Never again would such large men be born.

  12. The giant footprints found all over the earth, mistakenly called Bigfoot, are no more than prints made by the fallen angels offspring. The bones of these giants are classified by the name Neanderthal, found in caves with human bones. They became extinct along with the dinosaurs, because Jehovah destroyed them all at the flood.

  Now friends, please be objective and go to a copy center and have both pictures enlarged, those from the earlier copy of My Book of Bible Stories and the later editions, showing the horns removed from two of the male sheep in story nine. Then, ask yourselves this question. If the Society is right by saying that the clean animals went in by the odd number of seven, three pair and one extra male, why then would they have the artist mutate the picture and show the sheep going in by five females and two males? Again, rather than admit to a mistake made a long time ago, they would rather hide this mistake by committing a bogus act to deceive their own people. Ask the elders why they think this was done. Commit yourselves to finding the right answer, so you can proclaim to the world, just why only the 144,000 are going to heaven.

  Remember, "For there is nothing hidden that will not become manifest, neither anything carefully concealed that will never become known and never come into the open." Luke 8:17.

  The following poem was written by one of our elders. He knows he is one of the 144,000, as a replacement and heir of Jehovah and a joint-heir of Jesus. Heirs to the positions lost by the sinning angels, after Michael cast them out of heaven and called them to heaven with his own voice of Jesus and Michael.

  Listen

  You people of the world, listen to what I say
  Traditions and philosophies of men will be your dismay.

  I have chosen from among men and women of this earth,
  Only 144,000 for a special birth.

  A new creation they will be
  Heirs of both my Son and me.

  They'll fill those places in heaven above,
  Left by wicked angels who have lost my love.

  They were not content with their spiritual lives
  But rather chose the daughters of men as wives.

  For this, I condemn them to eternal destruction
  Along with those who follow not my instruction.

  I have left my signs on earth for men to know
  That Satan and his demons must finally go.

  Read the events that Genesis hold
  A fact that now must be told.

  The flood was for a certain reason
  To destroy the offspring of those committing treason.

  When the wicked angels took on bodies of flesh
  Their offspring's caused an awful mess.

  They were large in size and very mean
  Making that world of old to be unclean.

  The flood, of course, was my decision
  To end Satan's obvious derision.

  I had to stop his ridicule
  Even if my means seemed cruel.

  None but Noah, his family and the animals I chose,
  Lived through the deluge, as the waters rose.

  The signs I left for men to find
  Were the bodies of animals I left behind.

  The saber-tooth tiger, the mammoth and mastodon, to name a few
  Didn't make it to that world so new.

  I cleansed the earth of its wicked way
  Satan and his demons fled to heaven but not to stay.

  When my Son took his place on his heavenly throne
  They were cast to earth causing people to groan.

  The places were now vacant for the 144,000 to fill their abodes
  At the first resurrection those dead bodies arose.

  Those living on earth to this very day
  Will be taken to heaven in much the same way.

  But rather than sleep in death when they die
  They will be taken to heaven in the twinkling of an eye.

  Now observe what the animals mean that were left behind
  They represent Satan and his evil kind.

  The twelve extra clean species of animals I saved long ago
  Represent the 144,000, yes, this is so.

  When Noah made sacrifice of some of those kind
  They portrayed some of the chosen few, I had in mind.

  They symbolize those first going to heaven
  Some of those males and females, I picked in pairs of seven.

  But only twelve of these I picked to go
  They also represent the twelve tribes of Israel, I want you to know.

  The other two species of each clean kind
  Symbolize the start of that Great Crowd of mine.

  Yes, I left a remnant on earth to teach,
  Those willing to listen to what they preach.

  The unclean animals Noah took along,
  Represent the wicked nations entire throng.

  Now again, I say to make it quite clear
  The 144,000 are replacing the demons, do you hear?

  They'll rule with Christ a thousand years
  Ending all the sorrow, pain and tears.

  Then rule will be given back to me,
  Jehovah, your God for eternity.

  Satan will be gone forever, my friend
  Never, no never, to return again.

  And what of the large animals I left behind
  Dinosaurs and those of that kind.

  Why they symbolize the Nephilim, you see
  Those giants of old not created by me.

  I left their prints side by side
  Those of the dinosaur and giants so long and wide.

  Men of science try to disprove
  This fact of mine, now isn't that rude.

  I purposely destroyed these animals of mine
  To prove a point in this day and time.

  Do you understand now what I say
  Not to let men be your dismay.

  Yes, those signs were left for men to find
  So Satan may not, your eyes blind.

  Thank you for your time, and may Jehovah bless your effort of searching for the truth.

  THIS IS WHAT WE ARE SENDING TO EX-WITNESSES

  Dear Friend,

  In 1957, after being a Witness since 1944 and being baptized in 1951, I joined the army. For the previous six years I was in the Theocratic Ministry School. Not once did I write my own talks, my mother wrote and directed everything, including my service meeting parts. In 1956, I was assigned an hour talk. My mother was delighted and I felt very hypocritical to say the least. I was not prepared mentally or spiritually for this task. I signed up for the army and on May 17, 1957, I was inducted.

  In 1966 at a home Bible study, I stopped the meeting half way through. We were studying from the New Heavens and new Earth book. I argued that 14 clean animals went into the ark and not just seven. After reading verse 2 of Gen. 7 others at the meeting agreed and it was suggested that a letter be written to the Society. My father disagreed and on the way home, we had a heated argument, three weeks later I was disfellowshipped for having served in the Army.

  In 1978, while visiting my parents and having read story 9 in My Book of Bible Stories, showing just 7 sheep and 7 antelope entering the ark, another heated argument developed between myself and my father. I wrote a letter to the Society and received a copy of the 1954 Watchtower. Someone asked the question, was 7 or 14 the order the clean animals entered the ark? The Society answered, relating back to the New Heaven and New Earth book written the year before. Again, we argued.

  In 1984, after the word clean was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit in verse 8 and after my father read that verse he had to agree that the Society was wrong. A few months later, I received the poem and knew I was of the anointed. I then tried to be reinstated.

  In 1987, after meeting with 9 different elders here in PA and in CA, my father committed suicide. He knew I was of the anointed and he knew until I agreed that there were only 7 clean animals that I would not be reinstated.

  I then wrote a booklet and sent copies to the Society. I spoke to Lyman Swingle. His excuse was that some of the animals could have been pregnant, being 7 1/2 or 14 1/2 and so on. I then spoke to Daniel Sydlik, he told me to write a book and if found to be true the Society would humbly accept it. Six months later the book was finished and published. I only could afford having 2000 printed, money received from my father's death. I sent 12 copies to Daniel Sydlik, he said he would not be my distributor and hung up the phone. I then spoke to Lyman Swingle, he said he hoped that Daniel had his tongue in his cheek when he told me to write that book. I told him to make a decision about the right count. He said I should tell it to the stars and slammed the phone down.

  I later spoke to Lloyd Barry, he asked how many books were printed, he laughed when I told him 2000.

  For all these years, I have tried to bring this good news to the Society so the Witnesses can convince the lost sheep of false religion just why they do not belong in heaven. The only way they can understand this is after they understand that only the 144,000 are to be heirs of Jehovah and joint heirs of Jesus by replacing the 144,000 fallen angels.

  Last year after trying many ways of getting the Governing Body to meet with me, Brother Joe Spano of the Neshaminy congregation told us to bring people to the meetings and ask questions of the members so they could write to the Society. Previous to this, he and Winston George wrote the Society asking why they would not meet with me. Because of their failure to meet, he and the Circuit Servant, Brother McGee, gave our information to the District Servant, Brother Bartells. When we spoke to him, he said it was out of his hands, just as it was out of the hands of Brother Joe Spano.

  It was after my wife picked up ten new books of My Book of Bible Stories that we noticed the changes. If you can find a 1978 edition that printed 2,000,000 copies and the newer editions with printings so far of 42,500,000 copies. Some of our friends have copies showing 20,000,000 and others 32,000,000. All of these copies show 1978 and not the year of each new printing. The general rule is to show the year of each new printing.

  We are certain that the book I finished and had published in 1988, criticizing the wrong animal count especially in the Bible story book, caused them to change the number of sheep to 5 females and only 2 males with the intention of finally having to admit scripturally that there were 14. But, by 2 groups of 7, 5 males and 2 females in one group and the opposite amount in the other group. We figure though, with all the implications pertaining to the animal's meaning, and their connection given to an expelled person, well, they have kept it all secret. When I told the Governing Body members that I was of the anointed, they said that was between Jehovah and myself. Lyman Swingle said, that I thought more of myself than what I really was.

  We have received many inquiries from the hundreds of e-mailing. We believe that Jehovah with his technology has given us the way to reach the Witnesses so they can decide by using the Bible, that the Society is wrong about the count. If someone told you that 2+2 was 2, wouldn't you just out of kind concern correct them? By the Society saying that 7+7 is 7, this alone should alert the concern of each and every Witness to correct a simple yet embarrassing mistake.

  I have been warned by the elders after showing them and sending to the Society a colored copy of all the changes in the Bible story book, that if I continue to talk to them, they should call the proper authorities and have me removed from the Kingdom Hall. One elder poked me in the chest, others shouted at me, called me a wack-o and told me to come back and see them after I changed my mind about the animals and being of the anointed. Since then I have been stricken with Lou Gehrig's disease. I only have use of one finger to write letters and search for the many, many email addresses of the Witnesses.

  With Christian love,
  Bruce Bainbridge
• 
  17

  144,000

  by Bruce144 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hl giancula,.

  the signs and wonders that jehovah gave us, added to the bible writings completes the bible's outline directed to us.

  by using the animals representing certain people it just makes it easier to understand jehovah's direction.. besides this, the number 144,000 stands alone with its exact numbeerrneeded in heaven.

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  Bruce144

  Hi Chuck,

  The 144,000 are a new creation, going from flesh to spirit. We are many brethren being built upon Christ, the cornerstone. He was the first resurrected from flesh to spirit, only he went back to being Michael, now with his new name and power. Once the fallen angels were removed and he sat on his glorious throne he could call the new heirs to their heavenly places.

  Twelve thousand from each of the 12 tribes was the number needed including gentiles after Christ's death. When Jesus said I go to prepare a place for you, the only places being prepared was when Michael and his angels chased out Satan and the demons. Jesus at Matt. 26: 53 shows how the angels are numbered, by legions of 12. Satan took a third of only 36 legions, leaving the 24 elders or good angels behind. That is the two-thirds of that one group that was broken up. The 144,000 are heirs of God and joint heirs of Jesus.

  They will judge the fallen angels, not as men and women but as heirs or replacements, after they wickedly left the heavens for their lust and own personal power. Their deaths have already been written, but the judgment not yet completed until after the 1000 years
• 
  17

  144,000

  by Bruce144 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hl giancula,.

  the signs and wonders that jehovah gave us, added to the bible writings completes the bible's outline directed to us.

  by using the animals representing certain people it just makes it easier to understand jehovah's direction.. besides this, the number 144,000 stands alone with its exact numbeerrneeded in heaven.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Bruce144

  Hi iching,

  The changes in the Bible story book are there for all to see the fraudulent acts of the GB. Glad you are checking it out. After I argued in 1966 about the wrong animal count, I was disfellowshipped 3 weeks later. In 1986 I found out my own father and three elders arranged my departure pertaining to my Army attachment and not what was brought out at a secret meeting.

  Even though the GB and many elders know the truth about the 144,000 they refuse to print it, because their power will be lost overnight. As far as other members of the 144,000 having their ideas printed I am also in the dark. Besides myself and speaking to members of the GB, I only ever had contact with one anointed person, the old lady that got me in the truth. And I am very eager to meet her again.
• 
  17

  144,000

  by Bruce144 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hl giancula,.

  the signs and wonders that jehovah gave us, added to the bible writings completes the bible's outline directed to us.

  by using the animals representing certain people it just makes it easier to understand jehovah's direction.. besides this, the number 144,000 stands alone with its exact numbeerrneeded in heaven.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Bruce144

  Hi iching,

  The changes in the Bible story book are there for all to see the fraudulent acts of the GB. Glad you are checking it out. After I argued in 1966 about the wrong animal count, I was disfellowshipped 3 weeks later. In 1986 I found out my own father and three elders arranged my departure pertaining to my Army attachment and not what was brought out at a secret meeting.

  Even though the GB and many elders know the truth about the 144,000 they refuse to print it, because their power will be lost overnight. As far as other members of the 144,000 having their ideas printed I am also in the dark. Besides myself and speaking to members of the GB, I only ever had contact with one anointed person, the old lady that got me in the truth. And I am very eager to meet her again.
• 
  17

  144,000

  by Bruce144 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hl giancula,.

  the signs and wonders that jehovah gave us, added to the bible writings completes the bible's outline directed to us.

  by using the animals representing certain people it just makes it easier to understand jehovah's direction.. besides this, the number 144,000 stands alone with its exact numbeerrneeded in heaven.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Bruce144

  Hi Lurker,
  
  I have asked the question many times, why me ?? Until I was 50 years old I had over 100 jobs. everything was just so much fun and games. I had given up on religion except for the fact the Society could not count to 14. Then in 1984 when I received the message about the animal's my life took a completely change. My aggressiveness became overbearing and I hounded the elders and GB. When ALS hit I was stopped dead in my tracks. I truly belief that Jehovah allowed it to happen so that I could find other avenues to spread the news. The Internet was the way now being used. This news about the fallen angels must be made known. My temporary impairment will only add to the joy of replacing a fallen angel.
• 
  17

  144,000

  by Bruce144 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hl giancula,.

  the signs and wonders that jehovah gave us, added to the bible writings completes the bible's outline directed to us.

  by using the animals representing certain people it just makes it easier to understand jehovah's direction.. besides this, the number 144,000 stands alone with its exact numbeerrneeded in heaven.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Bruce144

  Hl GIANCULA,

  The signs and wonders that Jehovah gave us, added to the Bible writings completes the Bible's outline directed to us. By using the animals representing certain people it just makes it easier to understand Jehovah's direction.

  Besides this, the number 144,000 stands alone with its exact numbeerrneeded in heaven. Its quite clear that they are brought to heaven only after the places are prepared. Only after the places were prepared by Michael, could Jesus call the 12 apostles to their 12 thrones after sitting on his own throne. Just the fact that the 12 apostles are the foundation stones of the 144,000 makes then an elite group chosen from the earth to replace the fallen angels

  To insist that the 144,000 are all Jews or just a large symbolic number is pushing the truth beyond the boundaries of sound biblical understanding.
• 
  3

  teejay,still hanging on

  by Bruce144 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi teejay,.

  i have been waiting for your reply.

  you only mentioned hellfire as a detriment against the watchtower having the truth.

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  Bruce144

  Hi Carmel,

  The four essentials that make up the Societies main doctrines are essential for salvation through Armageddon. To think that Jehovah would burn people for eternity and not considering hell as just being dead, leads people from the biblical fact that we are living, air breathing humans and not of the spirit world. To compare Jesus to the Father without regard to his true identity of being Michael is not only throwing out the baby with the bath water, but heaving away the tub as well. And once the world realizes that the 144,000 are replacing the fallen angels, all truth, will come together. Believing in other than the essentials makes one a liar and liars will not inherit the earthly kingdom of God.
• 
  3

  teejay,still hanging on

  by Bruce144 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi teejay,.

  i have been waiting for your reply.

  you only mentioned hellfire as a detriment against the watchtower having the truth.

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  Bruce144

  Hi teejay,

  I have been waiting for your reply. You only mentioned hellfire as a detriment against the Watchtower having the truth. It is only reasonable that this doctrine be viewed as false among other religious groups. For years eternal punishment has been extolled with excessive pressure from preachers using fear, much to the likeness of Armageddon used by the Society.

  But I know of no other religion that teaches the 4 essential truths. No hellfire, we are living souls, Jesus is Michael and only the 144,000 go to heaven. The Witnesses keep waiting on Jehovah not realizing that as early as 1966 Jehovah had already chosen a person to finalize that the 144,000 are replacing the sinning angels. To deny my anointing since 1985 strongly shows Satan's power behind the limited amount of the GB thinking that they are the only anointed that Jehovah instructs. How wrong they are and will be made to see.

  Bruce Bainbridge