and then the end will come.. something like that!!.
so, for those who believe the bible, who are these people and what scripture would back that?.
holly
Are you seriously asking what the 'kingdom' is???
i know what the jws taught me. im challenging anyone else to tell me what it is, those who tell me jesus saves from sins. the bible says the gospel of the kingdom will be preached, so im asking those who think they are doing that who arent jws, what it means, and also anyone who knows of any others witnessing good news of the kingdom.
holly
and then the end will come.. something like that!!.
so, for those who believe the bible, who are these people and what scripture would back that?.
holly
2. if all are preaching , why do we have a confusing array of messages. why is there not a msg of unity.
3. if preaching was finished long since in the first century, what about everyone born since. dont we get to know the gospel of the kingdom.
4. my next viable option!!
holly
and then the end will come.. something like that!!.
so, for those who believe the bible, who are these people and what scripture would back that?.
holly
i was a born again christian for 17 years. baptised and preaching - although as a preaching born again i was rare. most people go to church and thats it. they may tell a few family and friends - some dont even do that. one church i went to had to have two services - one for older people who couldnt understand this born again movement, and one for the younger dance in the isle types. i worked with older people for several years. when they mentioned the split services and this 'new born again thing', i asked them 'do they actually tell you what it means, that you have to ask jesus into your heart and forgive you for your sins so you can be born again into gods kingdom - do the born again christians actually talk to you about their believes'. you know what - they didnt - not one of them. in a whole congregation the elderly were bewilered by the 'new movement'. and out of the people i mixed with in church, many were just church goers who thought they could live as they liked - they just had to attend church to assure their place in heaven. for the more sincere, some thought that they had to live their lives right, by gods commands, but didnt know what it was to be born again. some were born again - but thought as jesus forgives anything, they could keep doing wrong and saying sorry. i know a born again woman who lives with her boyfriend (but isnt doing anything - they apparently sleep seperately!), but fully believes as long as she keeps apologizing, shes on her way to heaven. and the church know about her living with her boyfriend but do and say nothing. and some born agains are really really sincere and do try to live by bible standards - but push them on issues like who are the meek who inherit the earth, and you will get a different story each time. then theres those who tell me they are christians but dont go to church. im deaf so go to deaf club every week and there are few non church going self professing christians. in ten years not one of them has witnessed to me. ive even asked 'what do you believe then'. 'oh im a christian, but i dont go to church bec you dont need to go to church to worship god'. but they never tried to save me. then i asked someone only last week, 'youre a christian, who are the meek who inherit the earth'. 'oh thats us she said, we are going to heaven, then god will make a new earth and put us all back on it'. and the scriptures to back that...............are not there.
try asking a vicar or pastor and the answers are just as confusing. the catholics are way off line of scripture. what they teach breaks commands of the very bible they preach from. the break away movements have allowed unscriptural stuff to creep in also. and they all preach hell as a place of everlasting torment or everlasting awareness of being cut off from god (views vary)
so the church have had it with me. i renounce it completely - and according to what born agains believe, that puts me in line for everlasting torment in hell. i would become an athiest before i could believe that any church has gods true message. thats not to say some arent sincere. many are. and many of my friends who remain in the church are just as confused by differing answers as i always was.
some say it is not an organisation that has the truth, but its individuals preaching. what are they preaching? most individuals just preach jesus saves. they couldnt give a theological arguement backed by scripture if they tried. 'and this gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come' matt 24:14 new international version. It does not say 'preaching jesus will save you from your sins, it says gospel of the kingdom. what is the kingdom?
You know i asked, who these people were preaching - and got a variety of answers. so can anyone tell me 'what is the kingdom'?
thank you
holly
.
in your words, what would be the unpardonable sin?
give examples.... .
i think it may be someone who sees gods miracles, so they know he exists - yet they still turn away. eg. seeing the red sea part so you can escape from your enemies, then turning away from god. thats my view anyway.
holly
i really like this board.
i hate making this statement bec i dont want you to all start hating me.
but since i came on here i have been researching a lot.
Why are you seeking an organised religion?
bec the bible says in the last days there will be a witness to all the inhabited earth and then the end will come. so are there individuals out there, not involved in any organisation doing this ?
also - the early christians set up congregations - i would have thought it figured it was alright to do that now, so somewhere there is a congregation of people with the truth. i thought was a logical thing to assume from reading what happened with first century christians.
i wasnt prime meat for the church - even though i do believe the bible is right. bec they never gave me satisfactory answers. ive been given a brain to think with. i want to serve god. and some of his people have the truth, bec the bible says so. just a matter of who.
holly
and then the end will come.. something like that!!.
so, for those who believe the bible, who are these people and what scripture would back that?.
holly
and then the end will come.
something like that!!
so, for those who believe the bible, who are these people and what scripture would back that?
thank you
holly
i really like this board.
i hate making this statement bec i dont want you to all start hating me.
but since i came on here i have been researching a lot.
ok folks, thanks so much for all your replies, but all these issues are just too much for me to deal with. so im gonna do as i have been advised is probably best, and start a new thread on a particular subject, that is more specific. i will do that over several issues that i have one at a time.
hopefully that will make things clearer.
firstly, please dont assume i have been brainwashed by the jws. i was involved with the church for many many years.
it wasnt a jw who made me ask 'if we are all going to heaven, who are the meek who inherit the earth'. i asked that of the church and got no sensible reply.
it wasnt a jw who made me ask who these people were in the last days preaching the good news of the kingdom before the end comes. I saw that scripture myself and wondered who they were.
it wasnt a jw who made me think, 'why did god create us to live on earth forever, then decide we would go to live in heaven'
it wasnt a jw who made me ask 'would a JUST god punish us forever in everlasting torment for 70 years of sin'
it wasnt a jw who told me it was ok to get rid of the brother who was sinning - i read that for myself in the bible. having spent years in church where they get rid of no one, i wondered why is wasnt happening.
it wasnt a jw who told me not to mix with the world. i read that in the bible too. i dont particularly like the world, or the attitude of many in it. i also know that you get like those you mix with. i never swear yet i once worked somewhere where everyone did. i was shocked when i first worked there but within a few days, i was swearing too, and it didnt seem wrong anymore. the world is like that from what i can see. and i didnt live 41 years on the planet only to find out from a JW. i knew this already, and many things already, bec I told ME.
if i share jw views, its bec i already did share these views, before i even knew what they believed.
i think we live in a mad crazy world of selfishness. humans are capable of such beauty, yet like no other species, capable of such horror.
i believe the bible - man cannot direct his own step. i read that for myself, not from a jw. i firmly believe we need god to sort this mess of a world out.
anyway, sermon over!! sorry!! on and on !
holly
isn't that sad that all those people who put their trust in god, and did good deads to help one another will all die because they couldn't figure out the "riddle" of the true religion.. i see my old parents go to church (catholic) every week, and they truly believe that they will be saved.
is there a religion that doesn't think that they won't be saved?.
if the witnesses are right, over 99.99% of beleivers will die at armageddon, and 100% of unbelievers will die at armageddon.
if God is just - and i believe he is - he will make sure everyone has the information to make a right decision - for him or against.
for those that havent had that opportunity, i believe they will get a chance at resurrection - it would be the only fair way from a God who was just.
holly
i really like this board.
i hate making this statement bec i dont want you to all start hating me.
but since i came on here i have been researching a lot.
hey everyone,
well i have scanned the latest posts - sorry thats all ive done bec ive got about 15 mins and then im off to work for the day - will try and give more thoughtful replies later. i dont want you to think im avoiding questions you ask bec im not. i know jws who come on here and do avoid direct questions, and i myself wonder what they are actually doing here anyway. i presume they either arent jws or have their own doubts - i dont know. i dont want to agrivate anyone, and if thinking the way i do, does agrivate people, i will go. but i do like this board and the variety of topics and some valid points are made.
one thing i will say, is any born again christian or anyone that has anything to do with the church on here would be wasting their time trying to convince me the church is right. i long ago lost hope they were right. i went to catholic churches where they pray to saints and worship the virgin mary, and on those points alone would not affiliate myself to any group who said it was ok to do that. ive been to baptist churchs, evangelical, most of the denominations actually. many will agree jesus died to save you from sin. thats about the only agreement you can find - ask them anything else about the bible and you get a very confusing array of answers - doesnt inspire me to believe they have found god. also ask any church what they believe about hell. they believe its a place of everlasting torment - or its a place of everlasting awareness of being cut off from god (views vary). the modern thing in the church is the born again movement - that was born relatively recently in church history. certainly my parents and grandparents and their friends who went to church regularly had never heard of it. but they went to church week in and wk out, living by bible standards. so are they saved. not according to the born again movement. theres lots to tell, but amongst this confusion i decided to leave. that was realy hard - quite heart breaking really. i was told i didnt want to know the truth bec i had so many questions. that is true i did. bec what i was told, what i was seeing didnt make sense. the only answer i ever got was, have faith in jesus and let the spirit guide you. sorry, but there is this huge book called the bible and im sure it says a bit more than that.
I also will not look at a religion that does not follow the bible. i believe it is the inspired word of god. who is right is a matter of interpretation, but i will only believe those who at least use the bible as their yardstick. yes i know it has been translated and there may have been error in translation, but as i cant read hebrew or greek, i do the best i can with what i have - which is several translations and i try to get a flavour for what is being said, and i also look around at what people are doing with their faith.
i got 5 minutes so will say this is what i see so far.
the jws use the bible as their yardstick - whether they interpret right or wrongly, they use the bible.
the bible calls us to be like jesus - they follow that to the letter from what i can see.
the blood issue - big issue - it does say abstain from blood - again that could be interpretation and they may be wrong. they may however be right.
the early disciples formed congregations with overseers and those who shepherded the flock. they were told to put out the brother who committed certain sins and not even eat with him. i really dont want to wind anyone up on here - i dont know your situations - but i will say they are the only ones i found who do this and it is scriptural. what i mean is, the bible says seperate yourself from the world (ie people who commit adultery, get drunk, are rude and behave badly towards one another etc etc). that i believe is for protection - you do get like those you live around and i believe god doesnt want us to live that way. now how can you seperate yourself from the world, when half the world is in church. so bec of that and all the other things i raised about church, i dont believe they have the truth, so i look to what the jws are doing and they are following scripture.
some one has the truth - for those who believe the bible and that we are in the last days, there are people out there doing what god asked, with the right message, before the end comes. who are they?? can some one tell me who they are please?
really got to go, will get back later and also spend more time looking through your comments.
holly
i really like this board.
i hate making this statement bec i dont want you to all start hating me.
but since i came on here i have been researching a lot.
i looked up some of your past posts and found one that stated you were dumped as a bible student. Did you ever pick the study back up and were you baptised?
No - if you look at the dates you will see that was about a month ago. i have just researched for myself since, made myself unpopular on another board full of born again christians - and left that board - joined a jw chat room. read the bible - looked up some jewish history - church history - bin pretty much working at this one full time.
by the way, if i miss anyones particular questions, please refer them again, im not avoiding anything - just easy to get lost in all the comments and questions. got a limited time on here and two kids fighting me to get on the computor, and then there's work ...........
which i must get to now !!
holly
