Posts by Chance

39

Hello, I need a few JW views on a couple of bible verses. Thanks!

by Chance in

hello jw forums,.

after careful study i was curious to hear the views & interpretations of a bible verse from a few jws.. .

after reading each of the following verses ask yourself, what does that verse mean?.

Chance

My apologizes if I was a little too out-spoken. I meant well.

No, don?t ever let anyone do your thinking for you. I enjoy listening to different preachers and their ideas but I never take a new idea for truth without carefully understanding it and praying to God about it privately first. But often God will speak a word to you thru someone else.

You sound quite angry about your departure from the Watchtower. I?m sorry?.
I know it?s difficult to trust again after being let down. I also know that leaving the Watch tower may have been the best thing God could have done for you. Like I said before, I grew up in a JW household, and I didn?t have a close relationship with God until I searched for him. God has always known where I was, but I had to seek him. And I love God now. Not because someone told me I should but because he loves me too. Try not to be angry with the JW themselves, forgive them, for they no not what they do. The JW simply try to obey what they?ve been told to do for God and to serve him the best they know how. But I?m sure you know that. It?s the organization?s foundation that?s the problem not the members.

It?s obvious to me that the Watchtower?s hold on JW is exactly what it teaches them to watch out for, and they never realize it. Kind of the blind leading the blind. I hope no one here takes offense from these statements, but from my life long experience with this subject its reality.

Quote: ?Not really! It depends on who's preaching and what. But, I don't like being told I'm wrong. What normal person would??

Of course people don?t like to be told they?re wrong or feel conviction from preaching but it is a good thing. It?s kind of like discipline from a loving parent. A child doesn?t want to get in trouble with his parents but if it teaches that child right from wrong then it is well needed. As a Christian I willingly welcome Gods instructions and I try to learn from my mistakes and not do them again. Now I don?t knowingly commit any more sins so I don?t feel that conviction when I listen to good preaching. Well? at least not lately.  Instead I usually receive a comforting message. But if/when I do sin and feel conviction for it from listening to a preacher I repent, and reconcile with God. As long as my repentance is sincere then God forgives me.

When Jesus died, he died for us. He paid the ultimate price to forgive us for our sins (not for his own gain and favor from God). It?s by his glory that we may be forgiven and our sins washed away to become worthy of Gods grace. We cannot be worthy by our own works or understanding. Only by accepting Jesus? gift can our lives be healed. He gave his life to restore ours. People who do not accept this live depressing and tiresome lives.
Life without God can sometimes feel like you?re running on one of those hamster wheels as fast as you can but you go nowhere until you ask God to set you free.

I?m curious to hear why you left the watchtower if you wouldn?t mind. So much of my family is so scared to question the watchtowers authority. Any insight that would be of help to us would be appreciated.

39

Hello, I need a few JW views on a couple of bible verses. Thanks!

by Chance in

hello jw forums,.

after careful study i was curious to hear the views & interpretations of a bible verse from a few jws.. .

after reading each of the following verses ask yourself, what does that verse mean?.

Chance

Quote: "How do you like being preached at?"

I love to be preached too (or at). Don't you?!

I wouldn't be the person I am today if I hadn't finally heard a good & caring preacher tell me that God loves me and presented me with an opportunity to start living my life for God instead of simply living a lost life with only my own understanding and knowledge to try to save myself with. Everyone who is lost (worldly) thinks they know what they're doing, but once they get saved, give they're life to God, ask him for forgiveness for their sins and ask him to live in their heart forever they will never look back. And they love to hear Gods word and be preached to. I'm not perfect, and I welcome God's correction when I make a mistake.

If you don't like to be preached to then I have to ask... are you saved? Or do you have all the answers?

:)

39

Hello, I need a few JW views on a couple of bible verses. Thanks!

by Chance in

hello jw forums,.

after careful study i was curious to hear the views & interpretations of a bible verse from a few jws.. .

after reading each of the following verses ask yourself, what does that verse mean?.

Chance

Deputy Dog... thats a low blow. :) "Better questions"

lol

These aren't the questions I ask my family. I know not to push an issue and to live by example. If this was all I ever spoke to people about they would probably avoid me. Which is not the case. Thats why I'm posting THESE questions here. To pester you. :)

39

Hello, I need a few JW views on a couple of bible verses. Thanks!

by Chance in

hello jw forums,.

after careful study i was curious to hear the views & interpretations of a bible verse from a few jws.. .

after reading each of the following verses ask yourself, what does that verse mean?.

Chance

Hello FairMind,

Like I mentioned before, I also agree with pericusmeus about being right or wrong doctrinally. Don't get me wrong, I love my church... but the building I worship in or the name on that building is irrelevant, as long as I am faithfully serving God and have him in my heart.

Since we?re on the subject of God and the universe, I would like to share my view on that also.

When we speak about God, in reverence to the universe, space, and time it can be extremely mind boggling. The hardest part to imagine is that God exists outside the realm of time. When people think of eternal they think from the beginning of time to the end of time. But that?s not exactly accurate. In the beginning there was God. God must have invented time if he existed before time. Can you imagine existence without time? It?s hard to imagine. But that?s truly what eternal means. It?s equally as hard to imagine existence before God created the universe. A blank canvas!

Personally I think the whole spiritual realm exists outside of time & the physical universe. We cannot see the things of the spirit but the spiritual realm obviously can interact with us. But if it were true that the whole spiritual realm exists outside of time then that would imply that our spirit is eternal. That may or may not be the case, but its something to think about. I think the bible refers to ?the lake of fire? as an eternal place of suffering doesn?t it? And doesn?t it refer to a paradise or heaven that we will live in with god for ever? That is, if our names are written in the book of life that is.

39

Hello, I need a few JW views on a couple of bible verses. Thanks!

by Chance in

hello jw forums,.

after careful study i was curious to hear the views & interpretations of a bible verse from a few jws.. .

after reading each of the following verses ask yourself, what does that verse mean?.

Chance

Yea jgnat, I've already searched the web for official WTS JW forums and was starting to come to that conclusion. Typical. When I stumbled upon this website I thought it was a website by JW. Oh well. Guess I'll have to go door-to-door and find'em. lol

Actually most of my family is JW from my mothers and my father?s side. However, except for my grandparents the rest of my family is not really practicing. They just do the bare minimum to obey my grandparents and the elders. When I discuss matters with them they don't really have knowledge of the scriptures. They only know what was taught to them in bible studies as children. And they don't like to even discuss religion or God. It makes them uneasy. Especially if I talk about it because my grandparents have taught them not to listen to or read anything I present to them unless its from the watchtower.

Often it?s harder to preach to your own family than it is to a perfect stranger.

:(

I remember secretly celebrating Christmas and other holidays as a child. They don't mind celebrating as long as no one lectures them about it. Its sad... they would serve they're parents, church (KH) and elders before actually seeking Gods will.

39

Hello, I need a few JW views on a couple of bible verses. Thanks!

by Chance in

hello jw forums,.

after careful study i was curious to hear the views & interpretations of a bible verse from a few jws.. .

after reading each of the following verses ask yourself, what does that verse mean?.

Chance

holly,

You mentioned John 1:1 "In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was god'. New World translation says '...and the word was a god'. One simple word, but it changes Jesus from being God, to being less than God."

Basicly...

In the beginning was ME, MYSELF and I.

LOL

39

Hello, I need a few JW views on a couple of bible verses. Thanks!

by Chance in

hello jw forums,.

after careful study i was curious to hear the views & interpretations of a bible verse from a few jws.. .

after reading each of the following verses ask yourself, what does that verse mean?.

Chance

Thank you for the warm-welcome everyone! Many good points indeed. And no, I didn't notice that most of you are Ex-JW. I assumed this was a JW website and would consist of mostly JW.

Pericusmeus, gives me the same distinct type of reasoning I always encounter with JW teachings & discussions. I applaud JW?s approach to try and simplify our understanding. Everyone needs to start with the basics. And JWs do that well? kind of. From first impression a lot of JW teachings seem so simple and easy to understand, however it?s these simplified explanations that sometimes seems to overlook some of gods greater understanding. After all, ?God works in mysterious ways?. The human mind and understanding (in our present state) cannot possibly understand the complexities of God?s knowledge. Maybe our soul can, but not our limited minds. That?s why, sometimes our mind says one thing but our heart says another.

You said: ?While Jesus was dead, Jehovah was alive and he resurrected him?, implying they are ?separate persons?, and ?that at one time, one of them was alive and the other one dead?.

?remembering the clear truth?; Jesus being dead for 3 days and Jehovah being eternal does not clearly indicate that they are separate persons! It simply implies that the physical body of Jesus was dead and brought back to life (Jesus? spirit never died). The ?clear truth? is that God can be in full omnipotent control of the universe (as usual) and live a full human life simultaneously. God doesn?t have they same type of limitations that we have. Our physical bodies cannot be in two places at once. But God is always everywhere. In the spirit realm, in the physical realm, and in our own hearts & minds.
God could easily maintain his heavenly presence and live a human life. Why wouldn?t he?

This type of thinking gives my mind a real workout! And when discussed can be quite confusing to others.

It?s so difficult to take such complexities and put them into a few words. So when I?ve had bible studies with JWs in the past, I asked so many questions and the outcome has always been the same. I organize our collective conclusions and they imply something other than what the JW originally tried to prove. Then they get frustrated and resort to insisting that I believe something they were taught that ultimately isn?t accurate. Then we change the subject to try to avoid frustrating arguments.

I do completely agree with you (Pericusmeus) about not identifying God?s people by doctrines. Intelligence and knowledge do not equal a true follower of God. Judgment will be equally fair for everyone. And we will not be judged by our works or scriptural knowledge but by our hearts and our loyalty to God. Example: if a JW doesn?t celebrate Christmas because he feels its pagan and it would be disobedient to God. Then I?m sure God loves his/her obedience/sacrifice. Likewise, if I teach my children there is no Santa Clause, and we celebrate our appreciation of Jesus, each other, and our lives we are also in Gods will.

Note: I acknowledge there is a WRONG (secular) way to celebrate a holiday.

P.S.
Paduan, you had a typo or something. I didn't quite understand your point.

39

Hello, I need a few JW views on a couple of bible verses. Thanks!

by Chance in

hello jw forums,.

after careful study i was curious to hear the views & interpretations of a bible verse from a few jws.. .

after reading each of the following verses ask yourself, what does that verse mean?.

Chance

I tried to edit my post and check/uncheck the box one of you mentioned above to fix the formatting & spacing but it gives me an error. I would fix it if I could.

P.S.
<---- Not done reading your posts reading your posts yet.

39

Hello, I need a few JW views on a couple of bible verses. Thanks!

by Chance in

hello jw forums,.

after careful study i was curious to hear the views & interpretations of a bible verse from a few jws.. .

after reading each of the following verses ask yourself, what does that verse mean?.

Chance

Whoah! I didn't realize this forum was going to take all my spacing out and merge my parragraphs. Sorry! :)

39

Hello, I need a few JW views on a couple of bible verses. Thanks!

by Chance in

hello jw forums,.

after careful study i was curious to hear the views & interpretations of a bible verse from a few jws.. .

after reading each of the following verses ask yourself, what does that verse mean?.

Chance

Hello JW forums,

After careful study I was curious to hear the views & interpretations of a bible verse from a few JWs.

After reading each of the following verses ask yourself, what does that verse mean?

New World Translation:

Isaiah: 41.4 "Who has been active and has done this, calling out the generations from the start? I Jehovah, the First One; and with the last ones I am the same."

Isaiah: 44.6 "This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah or armies, I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God."

Isaiah: 44.7 "And who is there like me?"

Revelation: 1.17 "And when I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet. And he laid his right hand upon me and said: "Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last,"

Revelation: 22.13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

I apologize if it seems a-bit redundant. It plainly states that Jehovah is the First & Last, the beginning & end, the Alpha & Omega. And we all know there is only one Jehovah.

Now, after reading that and drawing a conclusion to what each individual verse states, I come to my question.
What is the Jehovah's Witness interpretation of the next verse?

Revelation: 2.8 "And to the angel of the congregation in Smyrna write: These are the things that he says, 'the First and the Last,' who became dead and came to life again.

Became dead and back? Our father, Jehovah God, as we all know is eternal, with no beginning or ending. So what does it mean by "became dead"? The only one in the bible I know of who died and came back to life was Jesus.

A bit of history:
For the first thousand years after the death of Jesus Christ, there was only one Christian Church. There were no denominations. The Church was born in Jerusalem but the Apostles soon spread the teachings of Christ to other areas. They went North to Antioch in present day Syria, Constantinople in present day Turkey, South to Alexandria in Egypt and West to Rome. In each of these metropolitan centers of Christianity a Bishop was placed as the overseer of that area. In 1054 AD the Bishop of Rome attempted to assert authority over the entire Church instead of just his area or jurisdiction. This was the first split in the Christian Church and the beginning of the Roman Catholic Church. The remaining four Patriarchs (Bishops) continued together in collegiality as the Church had always been and took the name Orthodox Christian Church or Eastern Orthodox Church.

In the last thousand years there have been several more splits in the Christian church. Today there are hundreds of Christian denominations. The Jehovah's Witness denomination has only been around since the founding of the WatchTower after 1879, originally written by Charles Taze Russell (according to my sources).
Every Christian denomination except for the JW, recognizes Jesus Christ as God incarnate. Having been raised in a JW home, the first time I heard someone address Jesus Christ as Jehovah incarnate, the idea of that seemed alien to me. I realize now that it was the JW doctrine about Jesus Christ that was strange to the majority of other Christian Doctrines.

One more thing I've thought about recently; before the comings of Jesus, the people of God were all Jews. All the faithful Jews and followers of God were considered "Gods children". The Jewish laws did not condemn people for saying they were children of God. Why then were the Pharisees so distraught with Jesus as to have him turned over to the Romans and condemned to be tortured and finally put to death. Didn't they accuse him of blasphemy? What did he say that they would consider blasphemy? That he was the "Son of God"? I don't see why that would have been an issue. However, if anyone ever claimed to be God, that would have been considered blasphemy. They would have asked him to prove it by some sort of miracle or spectacle only Jehovah himself could do. Jesus didn't show them the miracle they demanded and he was turned over to the Romans and put to death after much controversy.

Everyone knows John 3:16; "For God loved the world, so much that he gave his only begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life".

This verse would hold so much more meaning if you have a revelation of Jesus as being God incarnate, (creating a human body for himself to live a human life among us. Then give that life to pay for the sins of humanity and prove his unconditional love for us) rather than for God to let anyone else (or an angel) die to prove his love.

Also, Islam's main doctrinal concern with Christianity is that they believe in Jesus but only as a prophet and not God incarnate. This triggered the Crusades in the medieval ages and caused the second split of the original Christian church. 600+ years after the death of Jesus, Mohammad claimed that all Christianity had distorted it view of Jesus as God and that portion of the Christian church declared Mohammad as the Antichrist. This further supports that mainstream Christian belief was that Jesus was God incarnate well after the first thousand years of Christianity. This dispute is the only major separation between Christianity and Islam. Being that Jehovah and Allah are both considered the God of Abraham.

I serve Jehovah God and wish only to obey him and further my understanding of his truth and his people.

So... back to my question.

What are a few Jehovah Witness interpretations of Revelation 2:8?

Thank you Jehovahs-winess.com & Jehovah God for this opportunity to discus this type of doctrinal issue peacefully without unnecessary argumentation.