Posts by Check_Your

28

"We only believe what the Bible says" or Help Refute a Common JW Claim

by Check_Your_Premises in

i am presently trying to get my wife to not drink the kool-aid (get baptized).

i have been pointing out to her that her and all jw beliefs come from the interpretation of scripture provided by the gb, and the inherent problems/contradictions therof.

they say something like, "we don't put the gb on a pedestal or anything, we believe what we believe because it is in the bible, not because the gb is telling us to believe it.".

Check_Your_Premises

Her baptism is only a few weeks away. I have accepted that I probably won't be able to talk her out of it. I am at peace with that. She may need to pay the price of her blind obedience to a human organization. I may need to pay the price for letting it get this far.

I am not using the full frontal. In fact I have only described myself as "recently troubled" by her decision. I have told her that I am still open to the religion, but there are serious questions that I have, which is also basically true. I myself do not see how it is possible, but if I was shown some compelling reason, I would be open.

What I have done is approach her not on the reason involved. That as you pointed out is incidental to her decisions. We believe things because we want to believe them. I have asked her to list all the reasons why she wants to believe TFDS doctrine. Next I have asked her to try to understand all the ways she has been influenced by others to believe what she believes. I found an outstanding book called the Psychology of Influence. It is a book that desrcibes the 6 basic methods that all compliance professionals use. I can and will write a huge post on this subject, but the JW in particular rely heavily on social proof (others say it is true so it is true), and our need for consistency with our commitments (public statements, reading propaganda out loud). She is in the middle of doing these two items grudgingly. Lastly I have asked her to pray for truth. If it is true, ask God to make it obvious. If it is not, ask God to make it obviuos. The key is to be a lover of the truth however.

Once she has done these things, I am going to ask her to look at some historical items. You don't have to show apostate material. The JW's give their critics plenty of ammo with their own body of work.

Then my last bullet is to simply beg her not to do it. We have a very good marriage otherwise. I do have a lot of influence over her, and she respects my opinion.

Again though, I do not have a lot of hope of talking her out of it. She has been studying and being indoctrinated for 3 years. I have only really been confronting this for about 1 month now.

Thanks for your thoughts though, and keep me in your prayers as well. Ask God to make my wife a lover of truth. I wish you luck, er um I mean, may the laws of probability favor you as well.

39

Were You Really That Much Harmed Because You Were A Witness?

by minimus in

jw
friends

looking back, did your being a jw hurt you all that much???

?

Check_Your_Premises

When my child was sexually abused by a jw

Did you call the police?

12

WT-1-1-05 Study Article-New Light?

by Bluegrass Tom in

i noticed in the article that was studied on sunday february 13, 2005 an interesting point.

at least interesting to me.. paragraph 15 states in part: " they acknowlege that riches can make life comfortable, but they know the wealth does nothing for their everlasting future".

please note the use of the term everlasting future (like after a ressurection), and not everlasting life are used.

Check_Your_Premises

"They are probably trying to slowly wean them from expecting the "New System" to come soon, and getting them to focus on being faithful and not relying on times and dates"

The problem is that the whole, "the end is imminent" stuff is what gets a JW's blood up. THink about it. If you really don't think that things will end before you die, you will pace yourself in "bearing fruit". If you think it is going to end in a few years, you can forget about any long term plans, and concentrate on only "bearing fruit". You see, no need to pace yourself.

37

Spirit appointed elders reveal information. Elders are disfellowshipped

by garybuss in

jw
friends

elders meet scriptural requirements before being 'appointed .

by holy spirit.

' knowing this will strengthen your confidence.

Check_Your_Premises

Yeah, I never joined but I did study for awhile. I always enjoyed those un-guarded moments with the people I was studying with. They would always tell me things about themselves and then beg me not to say anything to anyone in the KH. I keep to myself, so I am definitely trustworthy.

I just found it so odd, that these people found me, a member of Satan's system, more trustworthy than their fellow kool-aid drinkers. Equally odd, was that the irony of their confidences never seemed to cause any introspection for them.

115

Funniest WT Pics.....

by Preston in

i thought this was "bull" from night court when i was a kid.... .

lucille ball?!

?...from "i love lucy"??!?!?.

Check_Your_Premises

Yeah I always love the pictures of people sinning. They had one from the 70's or something and it showed people dancing in a disco. Friggin hilarious!!!

28

"We only believe what the Bible says" or Help Refute a Common JW Claim

by Check_Your_Premises in

i am presently trying to get my wife to not drink the kool-aid (get baptized).

i have been pointing out to her that her and all jw beliefs come from the interpretation of scripture provided by the gb, and the inherent problems/contradictions therof.

they say something like, "we don't put the gb on a pedestal or anything, we believe what we believe because it is in the bible, not because the gb is telling us to believe it.".

Check_Your_Premises

Easy...

28

"We only believe what the Bible says" or Help Refute a Common JW Claim

by Check_Your_Premises in

i am presently trying to get my wife to not drink the kool-aid (get baptized).

i have been pointing out to her that her and all jw beliefs come from the interpretation of scripture provided by the gb, and the inherent problems/contradictions therof.

they say something like, "we don't put the gb on a pedestal or anything, we believe what we believe because it is in the bible, not because the gb is telling us to believe it.".

Check_Your_Premises

I am presently trying to get my wife to not drink the kool-aid (get baptized)

I have been pointing out to her that her and all JW beliefs come from the interpretation of scripture provided by the GB, and the inherent problems/contradictions therof. But they don't see it that way. They say something like, "We don't put the GB on a pedestal or anything, we believe what we believe because it is in the Bible, not because the GB is telling us to believe it."

Now to me that sounds like a nice story, I am sure they believe it and all, but I think it is highly doubtful. Naturally we all defer our judgement to those we percieve to be in authority. I read a story about a study done on the problem of mistakes being made in providing medication in hospitals. A huge part of the problem is that when a doctor makes a mistake, the highly trained nurse does not feel the need to question the doctor because of his/her higher status. A particularly funny story had to do with a doctor's prescription to apply ear drops. The prescription said apply drops to R ear. The highly trained and experienced nurse supsended all of his/her own judgement in deference to the doctor, and applied ear drops to the patients rear!

In the case of the GB, they claim a mandate from the Ultimate Authority! How likely is it that no single JW, ever has found a teaching to be logically weak, or confusing, or even open to other interpretations. I find it more likely that because a given questionable teaching comes from the specially chosen servant of the Ultimate Authority, they suspend their reason and simply accept it.

Occam's Razor would dictate that the latter explanation is simpler and therefore more likely.

Also, here is another thing I thought of. How is it, that if they only agree with all the GB doctrine because it is "what the Bible says", why do they all agree with "new light" also? Wasn't the "old light", "just what the Bible said"? So how does the "old light" now become not "just what the Bible says", and the "new light" now does become "just what the Bible says"? And they all agree on it! Nobody has a problem with it? The Bible didn't change. What did? Obviously the only thing that did change was the GB interpretation. The fact that they all accept the change clearly shows that it doesn't come from "just what the Bible says", but rather from all JW's blind acceptance of whatever the "food" the GB provides.

Please include any thoughts, comments, or arguments.

24

Issues with claiming to be TFDS

by Check_Your_Premises in

i submit the following for your thoughts and comments.

making the claim.

the single most significant problem i have with the jw doctrine, is that they claim that god chose them to be his earthly organization, to the exclusion of all others.

Check_Your_Premises

"The very claim of being 'discreet' in fact runs counter to being 'discreet'. Being 'discreet' precludes you from boasting about being 'discreet'."

Good point! I have always found the more I learn and understand, the more I am in awe of my own ignorance. What kind of person runs around bragging about how wise they are! Obviously someone who lacks wisdom!

Momma always said, "If you gotta tell people how great you are, you obviously aren't that great".

24

Issues with claiming to be TFDS

by Check_Your_Premises in

i submit the following for your thoughts and comments.

making the claim.

the single most significant problem i have with the jw doctrine, is that they claim that god chose them to be his earthly organization, to the exclusion of all others.

Check_Your_Premises

I submit the following for your thoughts and comments

Making the claim

The single most significant problem I have with the JW doctrine, is that they claim that God chose them to be his earthly organization, to the exclusion of all others. For the purposes of this discussion I will concede that God at some point will or has chosen an organization to be TFDS (The Faithful and Descreet Slave).

If God chooses to designate a person(s) as a special servant, He has two means of making this choice manifest. First, He can directly contact all people He wishes to be made aware of His choice. An example of this would be the burning bush, or Christ walking on water. The key here, is that these are events that could have no other reasonable explanation to those beholding the events (save madness).

The second means he could use to make His decision manifest would be for Him to place it in the Bible, and make it apparent to those studying the Bible through the direction of His Holy Spirit. This is the means by which the JW claim that God used to make His choice known. This method would require people choosing whether or not they believe that God made this choice. In the first case there is no choice for people because there is simply no other reasonable explanation for the manifestation.

My questions here are:

Has God ever chosen a "special servant" and made His choice known through the second means?

The problem I have with the credibility of the second means is that it does require that people choose to believe it. All people decide to believe something by collecting a set of relevant facts, and using those facts and reason to prove as much as possible that something is/isn't true. An unfortunate fact of human nature is that what a person chooses to believe is heavily influenced by what they want to believe. Another unfortunate fact of human nature is that we are all inherently prideful. We all have a desire to think of ourselves and present ourselves to others as somehow superior.

So my question here is:

How could any person assembling the facts and reasoning on them to determine that they themselves are TFDS, not be unduly influenced in making that choice, by the natural desire for the honor of being the one and only FDS of an Omnipotent Creator?

What makes me uncomfortable with the claim that JW make is that I simply do not think it is humanly possible for a person to decide to believe that God chose them, without their own pride influencing that decision. Furthermore, for them to be wrong on such a matter would mean that they took their decision and incorrectly said it was God's decision. Even if they were completely honest in their mistake (which I don't think is possible), I would have to think it would be blasphemous.

So my questions here are:

Wouldn't any honest person realize that they could not possibly be objective in choosing to believe that God chose them? Wouldn't they be so afraid of getting it wrong, that they wouldn't want to even seriously entertain the thought, let alone proclaim it?

If a person did choose to believe that God chose them, if they were honest wouldn't they constantly have to question their reasoning to make sure they got it right? Does the Governing Body ever question this belief?

25

Does Jehovah Have A Over Active Ego Problem????

by frankiespeakin in

i'm talking about the bible god jehovah need to be worshipped,,and his utter hatred towards other gods the people worshipped.

i mean after all he has his people put to death if the worship any one else.

he even admits he is a very jealeous god,,so what are your opinions?

Check_Your_Premises

I always figured it was more for our benefit. I have found that things work out best when I live according to reality. I can't see how it matters to God what I think, but it does matter to me!

Check_Your_Premises

Posts by Check_Your_Premises