Check_Your_Premises

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Posts by Check_Your_Premises

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  16

  Anyone ever debated with Ray Franz re. EVOLUTION?

  by GetBusyLiving in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ray's a super guy, we all know that.

  just wondering if he has ever been open to discussing creation vs. evolution.

  he has an essay on his website but i don't really think his arguments are sound at all.. anyone here ever chatted with him about it?

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Well if you did, he would write very looooooooooong responses.

  One of the things I didn't like about the books was how long they were. Ok, complain about one of the most important books any of us has read... I know, be grateful.

  But I did send him an email telling him much thanks. Very short.

  He responded by telling me how he is old, and can't correspond much. Then he went in to a very long and detailed description of his medical conditon. Then he went on a long discussion about how much of the ex-jw world is bitter to it's discredit. Then he went on a long discussion of how leaving the org doesn't save us from dogmatism such as the trinity.

  The above 3 sentences were like 3 pages.

  But I read it all, because he is our Elvis.
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  21

  Great video to open eyes, minds, and hearts

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.livinghopevideo.com/wcg.htm

  i have this video and give it my wholehearted endorsement.

  it is the story of the worldwide church of god which was started by a man named herbert armstrong, who had the same self-aggrandizing disease shared by russel-rutheford-knorr-franz..... the church began to reform after his death (which was not supposed to happen because he was "elijah" returned in the end times to "set things right" before christ's return) the video is the story of that reformation.. i am sure they still have some problems.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I figure this isn't a thread that many will reply to...

  ...so I think it is ok to shamelessly btt.
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  21

  Great video to open eyes, minds, and hearts

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.livinghopevideo.com/wcg.htm

  i have this video and give it my wholehearted endorsement.

  it is the story of the worldwide church of god which was started by a man named herbert armstrong, who had the same self-aggrandizing disease shared by russel-rutheford-knorr-franz..... the church began to reform after his death (which was not supposed to happen because he was "elijah" returned in the end times to "set things right" before christ's return) the video is the story of that reformation.. i am sure they still have some problems.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Just to give a little tip on how to present this info.

  I sent out a letter to all the local churches and cults. I asked several questions about various doctrines that I actually cared about, doctrines that are JW staples, and some general questions about the divinely appointed authority a church can claim over it's members and of it's exegesis.

  Many churches responded with pamphlets and pap, likely figuring I was a kook.

  A few "got it".

  The response from wcg was absolutely made to order. The guy I heard from completely grasped the risks of men claiming the authority of God. I asked him to send me a hardcopy of his response to my house with the above video.

  If I present it to her, her guard will likely be up.

  On the other hand....

  If it comes in the mail, she will open it and read it.

  Most of this de-programming stuff I think is just getting their guard down.

  They also put out Plain Truth magazine. They sent me a couple copies and it is all about anti-cult type stuff, but I saw no mention of specific churches. Smart. Anyway, their website offers a free 1-year subscription. Price is right and can be left in the bathroom.
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  21

  Great video to open eyes, minds, and hearts

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.livinghopevideo.com/wcg.htm

  i have this video and give it my wholehearted endorsement.

  it is the story of the worldwide church of god which was started by a man named herbert armstrong, who had the same self-aggrandizing disease shared by russel-rutheford-knorr-franz..... the church began to reform after his death (which was not supposed to happen because he was "elijah" returned in the end times to "set things right" before christ's return) the video is the story of that reformation.. i am sure they still have some problems.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  http://www.livinghopevideo.com/wcg.htm

  I have this video and give it my wholehearted endorsement.

  It is the story of the Worldwide Church of God which was started by a man named Herbert Armstrong, who had the same self-aggrandizing disease shared by Russel-Rutheford-Knorr-Franz....

  The church began to reform after his death (which was not supposed to happen because he was "Elijah" returned in the end times to "set things right" before Christ's return) The video is the story of that reformation.

  I am sure they still have some problems. This isn't an endorsement of the WCG. This video will simply offer some amazing parallels to the JW story, yet it is completely safe to show to a dub because it is criticizing another sect. The parallels are amazing. A legalistic religion based on the idea that one man is God's representative, that they are the one true church, and they are preaching the good news of the "World of tomorrow".

  One thing I have found lacking in general on ex-jw sites is that there is not any info on other cults, that can be used to show how cults behave in a safe setting (un-critical of jw)

  CYP
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  24

  Ex-jw who joined as adults: How did you come to trust your own conscience?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry no raised-a-dub responses here!

  just ex-jw who joined as adults.

  on another thread i pointed out the idea that most jw who join as adults, do so out of a need to compensate for or as a reaction to some bad experiences such as physical abuse, sexual abuse, a time of upheaval, or just a plain old poorly developed sense of self.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Great responses everyone.

  Thanks for your input on a very personal question

  CYP
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  24

  Ex-jw who joined as adults: How did you come to trust your own conscience?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry no raised-a-dub responses here!

  just ex-jw who joined as adults.

  on another thread i pointed out the idea that most jw who join as adults, do so out of a need to compensate for or as a reaction to some bad experiences such as physical abuse, sexual abuse, a time of upheaval, or just a plain old poorly developed sense of self.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Cool Sweet Tee! That is exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

  I know it is a difficult question. I think most can relate to some experience where the light came on for them. What I am trying to get at is what were the circumstances in your life that led up to that moment. Not the light coming on! Rather the fact that when you did see something, you didn't automatically assume you were wrong and the slave was right because they are God's organization.

  The moment you noticed something, you decided that you trusted yourself more than you trusted the slave. That is a very important moment.

  It might take some thinking, but I hope you all can spend some time thinking about what really gave you the confidence to stand on your own.
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  24

  Ex-jw who joined as adults: How did you come to trust your own conscience?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry no raised-a-dub responses here!

  just ex-jw who joined as adults.

  on another thread i pointed out the idea that most jw who join as adults, do so out of a need to compensate for or as a reaction to some bad experiences such as physical abuse, sexual abuse, a time of upheaval, or just a plain old poorly developed sense of self.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I did leave due to my personal growth coupled with experiences while in the tower and personal experiences with non-dubs

  How did that personal growth come about? Were there experiences apart from the ones cited that helped you to have confidence in yourself? That built trust in yourself?
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  24

  Ex-jw who joined as adults: How did you come to trust your own conscience?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry no raised-a-dub responses here!

  just ex-jw who joined as adults.

  on another thread i pointed out the idea that most jw who join as adults, do so out of a need to compensate for or as a reaction to some bad experiences such as physical abuse, sexual abuse, a time of upheaval, or just a plain old poorly developed sense of self.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  They are not going to suffer the consequences I will have to endure by following their failed teachings.

  That is a good point LRG. I hope I am not being pushy here, or annoying. I do appreciate your thoughts. I understand you found the org lacking. But every dub does. No cult lives up to it's promises.

  Why were you able to recognize the shortcomings as proof of their falsehood, instead of acting like everyother dub and saying, "where else can we go" or "even if it isn't perfect, I know this is Jehovah's organization".

  Why do you think you had that trust in yourself. This question is personal I know. It is only about you, not about the org.
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  24

  Ex-jw who joined as adults: How did you come to trust your own conscience?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry no raised-a-dub responses here!

  just ex-jw who joined as adults.

  on another thread i pointed out the idea that most jw who join as adults, do so out of a need to compensate for or as a reaction to some bad experiences such as physical abuse, sexual abuse, a time of upheaval, or just a plain old poorly developed sense of self.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Carla,

  I have seen you around in alot of the same threads. Are you a UBM?
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  24

  Ex-jw who joined as adults: How did you come to trust your own conscience?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry no raised-a-dub responses here!

  just ex-jw who joined as adults.

  on another thread i pointed out the idea that most jw who join as adults, do so out of a need to compensate for or as a reaction to some bad experiences such as physical abuse, sexual abuse, a time of upheaval, or just a plain old poorly developed sense of self.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I guess what I am really trying to get at here, is to see if there was something you can point to that led to you having enough faith in yourself to not just accept the things you disagreed with because it came from "Jehovah's organization".

  Why do you think you decided to trust your own instincts, when in the past you yearned to have some group give you all the answers.

  How does that sort of personal growth come about? Can it be encouraged by a loved one? If so, how?