Posts by Check_Your

70

Who all here was personally helped by JWD

by Ticker in

i was and i am ever thankful to this board and all the wonderful members on it that have contributed to my freedom.

thankyou all so much and i think i might be becoming a jwd addict.

i love this board it is so helpful.

Check_Your_Premises

...you have a great insight where the WT is concerned, for someone who has been exposed to it for such a short time

Well thanks but...

...who am I going to brag to about that!!!

That is worse then being a 40 year old virgin, live-with-my-mom trekkie!

I know more then I ever wanted to about these clowns. I would really prefer to spend my time learning about something that someone besides the poor wretched UBM might find interesting.

My non-jw extended family doesn't get it at all. When I start to explain something they just glaze over on me! My brother is always like, "and they beleive this stuff?!?!". Isn't it awful we have to spend our time reading about this garbage! At least the dubs get a kick out of thinking it is from God. We have to read it and have our worst fears about human nature confirmed.

The Watchtower must be destroyed!!!

70

Who all here was personally helped by JWD

by Ticker in

i was and i am ever thankful to this board and all the wonderful members on it that have contributed to my freedom.

thankyou all so much and i think i might be becoming a jwd addict.

i love this board it is so helpful.

Check_Your_Premises

Thanks Vitty. Will do.

I always appreciate your thoughts and responses to any of my comments or threads.

The Watchtower must be destroyed!!!

CYP

21

Great video to open eyes, minds, and hearts

by Check_Your_Premises in

jw
friends

http://www.livinghopevideo.com/wcg.htm

i have this video and give it my wholehearted endorsement.

it is the story of the worldwide church of god which was started by a man named herbert armstrong, who had the same self-aggrandizing disease shared by russel-rutheford-knorr-franz..... the church began to reform after his death (which was not supposed to happen because he was "elijah" returned in the end times to "set things right" before christ's return) the video is the story of that reformation.. i am sure they still have some problems.

Check_Your_Premises

Nathan,

Thanks for updating this thread with your endorsement as well. We often spend so much time examining the wt paradigm in light of internal/external consistencies and external validation. That is helpful for many who have left, and it is useful for those who are awaking from their hazy dream to the reality of their captivity. But for those who still have a strong need to beleive in the wt paradigm it is useless to point out these inconsistencies and external invalidations.

However it is possible to examine OTHER paradigms. That is why videos like these are so important. These types of criticisms can penetrate the jw protective wall because it is criticizing another religion.

Anyone with anybody trapped in the tower needs to educate themselves about other cults. This story of the WCG and this video in particular should probably be on the "must have" list of anyone trying to help a loved one escape the tower.

The Watchtower must be destroyed!

CYP

70

Who all here was personally helped by JWD

by Ticker in

i was and i am ever thankful to this board and all the wonderful members on it that have contributed to my freedom.

thankyou all so much and i think i might be becoming a jwd addict.

i love this board it is so helpful.

Check_Your_Premises

I don't know what I would have done without this site, and all you fine folks here.

I am a UBM (unbeleiving mate). The WT has been destroying people like me for over 100 years. The story is always the same. No person can stand alone against an organization. They are there when you can't be. They have had thousands working out their arguments and doctrine for decades. No one man can stand against such an onslaught. Ithink relayed what his father told him, which put it most poignantly to me, "Before they got to me, they saw a thousand guys like me. They had me sliced and diced before I even knew what hit me. They knew every move I would make and how to head me off". My life was one of suffocation and desperation.

I stumbled on this site when I was first awakening to the reality of what was happening to my wife and our marriage. That might sound silly to you folks who know the WT life so well, but at first glance they can come off as very credible. I had some red flags go up early on, but so much of it was obscured by the presence of all these nice, confident, and spiritually dedicated people. When I finally started raising some questions to my wife, I was startled by how obtuse she sounded. This is a very smart woman. She has no problem understanding anything I tell her. I simply asked her what she would do if the org asked her to do something that she felt was against God. She looked at me like I had said, "4+4=jello". That is when I became worried.

I logged on here, explained my situation, and you folks explained to me what I was really in for. I have been to many ex-jw web sites in the past, but so much of it seemed over the top and just didn't fit the facts of what I was seeing. Not to say that some of you fine folks here don't come off as bitter at times, but I saw many very reasoned and insightful responses. I began to see a pattern in some of those responses, and those responses matched exactly with the reality I saw everyday. I finally understood the seriousness of my situation; my wife had full blown jw-itis. This is a disease that is often terminal, and is similar to Alzheimer's in that it slowly deteriorates your mind and consumes your personality. It's defining symptom is the person believes completely that this is God's organization. All other evil originates from that ideological fountainhead.

I tried my best to postpone her baptism and sadly failed. I do take comfort in the fact that there was nothing I could have done by that time, and I know I had the best advice going from you folks. She was already gone. So now I am doing everything I can to understand the bonds that keep her captive. I am trying to methodically identify, isolate, and eventually cut every bond that holds her. Without this place I would have no idea how to do that, and I would have nobody to counsel me. When she does finally "take the blue pill" I will again be indebted to all you fine folks here.

You all are helping me save everything I have worked my whole life for. How could a person be more indebted to a group of folks? The truth is I can never repay my debt. I can only do my best always to help others in my situation.

Take care, I love you all, and I pray for all of you who still have families locked in the tower.

Censer Watchtower esse delendam (The Watchtower must be destroyed!!!)

CYP

23

Please refute: There is ONE true God, one creator, one savior

by M.J. in

i am curious, what explanations are there for the scriptures that affirm the existance of only one true deity, in light of christ's affirmed deity (jn 1:1, is 9:6)?

other than the conclusion that the deity spoken of could be inclusive of christ?

(perhaps in the sense of john 10:30--"i and the father are one").

Check_Your_Premises

The bible is very clear as to the identity of Jesus and Jehovah

Well there you go. Can't argue with that. See MJ, you don't need any examples or anything... in fact you don't even need an explanation.

41

Who is the Faithful and Discrete Slave?

by Etude in

recently, i've had memories about that topic, which i had suppressed for a long time.

my original question came up when i encountered a few members of the "anointed" in my congregation (we're talking almost 30 years ago).. there was one sister who partook of the "emblems" who had come from cuba.

i learned from her that her health was frail because she had smuggled some expensive jewelry in a condom and stuck it up her colon.

Check_Your_Premises

What they DON'T dare mention is that Paul had to visit that "first century governing body" and straighten them out!

Where is that in the Bible?

41

Who is the Faithful and Discrete Slave?

by Etude in

recently, i've had memories about that topic, which i had suppressed for a long time.

my original question came up when i encountered a few members of the "anointed" in my congregation (we're talking almost 30 years ago).. there was one sister who partook of the "emblems" who had come from cuba.

i learned from her that her health was frail because she had smuggled some expensive jewelry in a condom and stuck it up her colon.

Check_Your_Premises

Yeah that is one they really try to obfuscate as much as possible.

When I would ask direct questions about the governing body I got this wierd disconnect... I have a feeling one or two of you might have observed this rare phenomenon .

It isn't healthy for a dubs psyche to think of TFDS as some old guys at Bethel. They need to maintain the disconnect that the garbage they read came from God. If you put a name to the garbage (spiritual food), that fantasy is diminished.

So what I kept hearing dubs say to me, when I spoke about the GB, was "we don't think of it that way. To us the slave is the organization". To which I would ask, "so you are part of the orgainzation, are you then TFDS?". Which they will reply, "it is not one person, it is the organization".

See, "the organization" is an abstract concept, and more acceptible to and easily associated with the idea divine authorship then saying "Ted is TFDS".

12

New J.W. strategy? I need to vent !!!

by hubert in

jw
friends

some of you know i have a daughter and son-in-law that is involved with the j.w.

cult.. this is because of the influence brought about from my daughters aunt, who is a full blown (brainwashed) j.w.

cult member, and her family, too.. my daughter always loved her aunt, even though she was in the cult, which is fine with us.

Check_Your_Premises

I think the first step is diagnosis. Your daughter's condition will dictate your approach.

Question 1: Has she accepted the idea that this is a divinely appointed organization.

If she has accepted that, she is for all intents and purposes a witness. You must treat her and approach her in that way. That is a discussion far to complex for the scope of this thread... maybe even this forum.

If she has not, you must inoculate her to that idea. The best way to do that is produce items that damages the wt credibility... which isn't very hard.

Why not ask her straight up, "On a scale from one to ten, how convinced are you that this is God' only, one true, organization?"

Sorry if you already know the above... and I am very sorry if she has full blown JW-itis.

And yes, the method of getting compliance out of people by offering them something is tried and true.

There are 6 methods of influence used by compliance professionals identified by Robert Cialdini in his book Influence: The Principles of Persuasion.

1. Social Proof - Other people are doing it, so it must be the right thing.

2. Liking - I like them, so I will do what they want.

3. Commitment and Consistency - I agreed to do that, so I must agree to do this to be consistent.

4. Reciprocity - They did this for me, so now I feel obligated to comply.

5. Authority - They appear to be authoritative, so I will do what they want.

6. Scarcity - This opportunity is going away, so I better get it now!!!

Actually the dubs use all of these in some ways. They use reciprocity in many ways, "free Bible study", "free publications", all these nice folks trying to do you favors and wanting to be your friend all of a sudden. The real sneaky part of the reciprocity rule is it allows the compliance professional to set the terms. They offer something, which is accepted, and then at a later time they make a request that is far beyond what was given. But the individual feels obligated, so they give in.

Maybe present that idea itself in a neutral setting. Tell her how some salesperson offered you a free sample. Then later on they started making you feel guilty for not wanting to buy their product. Ask her what she thinks about that? Ask her what she thinks a person should do in that situation? Ask her if she thinks a person should feel obligated when someone gives us something to get us to agree to something else?

12

ITHINKISEE Update: Nothing to tell.

by ithinkisee in

jw
friends

a few of you have asked me via pm how things are going with telling my wife.. unfortunately, nothing has happened yet.

each night i almost get up the nerve to tell her i chicken out.. anyhow ... just thought i would update ... will keep you posted.

thanks all you who have checked in.

Check_Your_Premises

This is something I sent to someone recently talking about a conversation I had with my wife.

I did pretty good at staying focused on her. I also didn't approach it with an agenda or a plan so much. I just tried to talk to her as a person. I think you know what I mean. Plans and talking points are good, but you really just have to go with the moment. When you try to force something in the moment it doesn't work. You just kind of have to let it come. If the opportunity doesn't present itself then dont try to force it. IT is an art, not a science. Have a plan, but don't force it. It is kind of like comedy. Dont try to be funny, just be funny. The second you try, everyone senses it, and you aren't funny anymore. Start the conversation, let the moments come, and be comfortable in the confidence that they will present themselves.

Additionally, the problem I always have with talking to dubs, is that they really aren't interested in what I think. They are kind of taken aback when I tell them this. They deny it, but I point out that nothing I could say would ever be considered by them if it challenged their beliefs. They just ask what I think so they can hit me with the talking points I have already heard a million times. On the other hand you expect me to be open to theirs. They see themselves as a teacher. I am supposed to be a student. Another way of looking at this is they are giving me a sales pitch.

But that is not a real conversation between two people. Who wants to hear a sales pitch all the time. If you aren't going to come to me like a person, who is genuinely interested in me beyond whatever it is you are trying to sell, then I really am not going to be interested. How am I supposed to care what they think if they don't care what I think.

You have to have the same tack. You can't just be about your pitch. You have to talk to her as a person.

It sounds like you have built this up to much in your mind. That is almost a guarantee of failure. You obviously have good instincts, because the moment didn't feel right, so you didn't push it.

Maybe just talk to her and ask her how she feels about you, and your involvement. I bet you will get a lot more honesty if you take it from that point.

9

We need to contact newspapers that simply provide pro-JW depictions....

by Check_Your_Premises in

...of the conventions.. for instance our local paper highlighted how this group was their to give spiritual food, and talk about family values.

ok sure, those are great things.

but they can be had without joining a cult!!!.

Check_Your_Premises

I sent an email to freeminds, ajwrb, and brci asking if they have any press releases.

CYP

Check_Your_Premises

Posts by Check_Your_Premises