Check_Your_Premises

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Posts by Check_Your_Premises

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  11

  I had a few questions on your thoughts about Matthew 7:15-23.

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had a few questions on your thoughts about matthew 7:15-23.. first off jesus identifies false prophets by their fruits.

  he then says that a rotten tree can only bear bad fruit, and a good tree can only bear good fruit.

  but doesn't a false prophet have to provide some good fruit for people to follow.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Thanks Sky,

  I do have a lot of questions about the Bible, it's origins, it's authenticity, and if the canon is legitimate. For instance I am aware that many of the concepts are completely unoriginal. The virgin birth, and the concept of a benevolent, sacrificial diety predate Christianity. I am aware of this.

  As I stand I am yet a Christian. I do believe in God because the order I see around me confounds the idea of a chaotic existence. I accept the idea of a sacrificial diety because it does make sense to me in context of Jewish tradition, and the logical progression of a benevolent Creator who made us in His image and yet to have free will.

  Do I believe the Bible is the perfect, complete rendering of the word of God? No I couldn't make that case.

  However for the sake of argument, as I stand today, I am willing to accept the assumption that it is. You see unless a conclusion follows from it's premise statements alone, it cannot be known to be true or false, only likely or unlikely. However great those books are, and however much you think you know, the best you could hope to tell me is that the Bible is unlikely to be God's word. So right now I do accept that assumption for the sake of arguments I need to make today, which was the point of my questions.

  See my mind isn't necessarily closed. I don't believe in closed paradigms. I think the truth can survive perfectly well in an open and questioning paradigm. The reality is that my mind can only think about one thing at a time. Right now the most pressing questions I have are the ones above.

  But thanks for checking_my_premises,
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  11

  I had a few questions on your thoughts about Matthew 7:15-23.

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had a few questions on your thoughts about matthew 7:15-23.. first off jesus identifies false prophets by their fruits.

  he then says that a rotten tree can only bear bad fruit, and a good tree can only bear good fruit.

  but doesn't a false prophet have to provide some good fruit for people to follow.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  I had a few questions on your thoughts about Matthew 7:15-23.

  First off Jesus identifies false prophets by their fruits. He then says that a rotten tree can only bear bad fruit, and a good tree can only bear good fruit. But doesn't a false prophet have to provide some good fruit for people to follow. Can any person be only good or only bad? What then is this fruit?

  In verse 23 Jesus says He will tell those calling on His name to "get away from me you workers of lawlessness." How would you respond to someone who says this implies that Jesus will reject those who are not following certain rules? What if they didn't know about certain rules, or think that they were being disobedient? For instance let's say it is actually wrong to celebrate Christmas, but you did because it didnt violate your conscience. Will Christ reject you?
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  36

  eating disorders in JWs

  by girl_interrupted in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  what would the jehovah's witnesses have to say about eating disorders?

  presumably any kind of mental illness is frowned upon and put down to weakness of the spirit.....i know when i was in it, one sister was severely chastised for having depression....she was told to have more faith in jehovah and presumably when she did, her husband would stop beating her and sexually abusing their kids which was understandably the source of her depression!

  !

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Similarly, it would be dangerous to consult a mental-health professional who does not respect our religious and moral views. (Like cult tactics and high control environments with no room for critical thinking?)

  That pretty much sums it up. Any mental health professional will likely recognize the elements of mind control even if they are completely unfamiliar with the witnesses. Furthermore if the shrink is worth anything, they will have some ideas how to approach the person and encourage them to think.

  BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!!!!
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  36

  eating disorders in JWs

  by girl_interrupted in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  what would the jehovah's witnesses have to say about eating disorders?

  presumably any kind of mental illness is frowned upon and put down to weakness of the spirit.....i know when i was in it, one sister was severely chastised for having depression....she was told to have more faith in jehovah and presumably when she did, her husband would stop beating her and sexually abusing their kids which was understandably the source of her depression!

  !

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  Check_Your_Premises

  After the trinity of meetings, study, and field service have been dutifully fulfilled

  They do beleive in a trinity!

  I love you J! And check your email, your premises are fine today.

  CYP
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  15

  Where to Start?

  by theundecided2004 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey yall,.

  i'm an inactive jw that wants to begin my critical study of this religion and make a comparison between this faith and mainstream christianity.

  in addition to catching the wtbts in its lies, changing doctrines, and stuff critical to leaving the faith, i also want to get a historical perspective on everything.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Hey, welcome.

  I think most former witnesses begin with Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz. I understand that it really does a great deal to take away from the idea that the GB is leading Jehovah's organization.

  That is your first and fundamental question. Do you believe that? If you do, then you need to get reinstated. If you don't... well I will let you come to your own conclusions.

  Please enjoy your stay here. YOu will find many very smart people who will be able to answer any questions you have.

  CYP
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  10

  On Freeing Minds: How do you know when you have scored a hit?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just curious what you former dubs might think.

  for those of us trying to "release the bonds", it would be nice to know when we have made some progress.

  this is such a slow and tedious battle.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  They start flingin' feces.

  Says Jane Goodall of the wt world.
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  36

  eating disorders in JWs

  by girl_interrupted in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  what would the jehovah's witnesses have to say about eating disorders?

  presumably any kind of mental illness is frowned upon and put down to weakness of the spirit.....i know when i was in it, one sister was severely chastised for having depression....she was told to have more faith in jehovah and presumably when she did, her husband would stop beating her and sexually abusing their kids which was understandably the source of her depression!

  !

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  Check_Your_Premises

  We were not born WITH one

  I am not sure I agree with that completely. I think everyone KNOWS and understands inately that there is this rule that we all should follow, and we certainly expect from others. That is we should do to/for those as we would want others to do/for us.

  Of course our sense of right and wrong can become jaded. I do agree that we need to consult the word to keep our perspective centered on Jehovah's perspective.

  But I don't really want to talk about that anymore here. Unfortunately whenever a witness shows up here the conversation becomes about them. I do admire you for coming to such a hostile place. So if you do want to talk anymore about the things I mentioned I would prefer to do it by PM, since every reply you make to me will get 10 responses from others. That isn't a conversation. It is a feeding frenzy. That observation isn't any way a dig at the fine folks here at JWD. This is an apostate house. They come here to talk to ex-jw's, not to be preached to about a paradigm they have rejected.

  This thread is about eating disorders. Actually I think there is an awake or wt coming out soon about a bulemic named Lena. Does anyone here think that eating disorders are more common in the org? In jw who were raised in it? What about jw who joined as adults. What are your experiences as dubs?

  I tend to think that jw who joined as adults did so out of a need for a group with all the answers. Could a bulemic or anorexic be unsure of themselves, and therefore make them more likely to seek a group to "make them" do things the right way?
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  36

  eating disorders in JWs

  by girl_interrupted in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  what would the jehovah's witnesses have to say about eating disorders?

  presumably any kind of mental illness is frowned upon and put down to weakness of the spirit.....i know when i was in it, one sister was severely chastised for having depression....she was told to have more faith in jehovah and presumably when she did, her husband would stop beating her and sexually abusing their kids which was understandably the source of her depression!

  !

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  Check_Your_Premises

  ...I Honestly feel i have found the truth But I have adopted the attitude...

  ... I will not let others dictate my relationship with God.

  I think those might be two contradictory statements. If JW are the truth, then their conscience will supercede yours out of a necessity to obey Jehovah's organization.

  But what if they tell you to do/not do something that you feel contradicts Jehovah's will?

  If God gave you a conscience, why does he then expect you to subordinate it to others?

  I hope I am not offending you. I would like to talk to you more about this. If you don't feel you can do that on the open forum, feel free to pm me.

  Take care.

  CYP
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  10

  On Freeing Minds: How do you know when you have scored a hit?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just curious what you former dubs might think.

  for those of us trying to "release the bonds", it would be nice to know when we have made some progress.

  this is such a slow and tedious battle.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I suppose what I am asking for isn't possible to know, anymore then it is possible to know anything about the inner workings of another person's mind. How well do even understand how things effect ourselves!

  I guess there is often such a delayed reaction to the information that we just have to be patient.

  Thanks all.

  CYP
• 
  10

  On Freeing Minds: How do you know when you have scored a hit?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just curious what you former dubs might think.

  for those of us trying to "release the bonds", it would be nice to know when we have made some progress.

  this is such a slow and tedious battle.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Just curious what you former dubs might think.

  For those of us trying to "Release the Bonds", it would be nice to know when we have made some progress. This is such a slow and tedious battle. We all need successes to boost our morale.

  So are there any signs to know when something has hit home? I have seen them stammer. I have seen them silenced. I have seen them shake. I have seen them get agitated.

  But how do I know when I have helped cut a bond? How do I know when a bond is released, as opposed to becoming a quickly dismissed stumbling over the truth?

  "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -Winston Churchill