hello everyone.
have recently met someone, amazing person!
however have many questions about jw's and wt.
WHy are you so sure you won't join? Are you familiar with mind control methods? Do you have strong doctrinal disagreements?
Why are you wanting to go? Just to check it out for yourself? Are you going with this "friend" or by yourself?
In general, "keep your friends close, your enemies closer". Also your, um, friend will be ecstatic if you attend (without her because you are probably a dirty little secret)
CYP
the most eerie and fascinating passage i ever read in any of the jw literature (literature??
) was in the red book, life everlasting in freedom of the sons of god.
i wish i had written the quote down.
"who is to say that there is not existence outside of our own perception" which almost sounds like it means something! But, frankly, it cannot.
So are you saying that unless we are able to perceive something it cannot exist? You lost me here. I see man as hoplessly limited in his ability to perceive and understand. I think you are saying rather that unless we can prove or validate something, we are better off not putting alot of stock in it. I can't say I disagree. I am simply saying that I don't think we can dismiss the possibility. I have a feeling we are talking past eachother a bit. More of a distinction than a difference.
When we begin excusing the ridiculous by resorting to the fallacious "argument from ignorance" (we base a belief on what we DON'T know) it is a sure sign we crave the fix that comes from the hypdermic syringe of the imaginary!
That is always a danger. We always have to mindful of the extent our own desires, and cravings come into play in what we end up believing. I certainly don't exclude myself. I must say that my choice to believe in God is not, in my opinion, a blind one. What I mean to say is that it is based on things I perceive in my existence.
We have chatted a bit. You know my biases and cravings. What are yours? Maybe I have missed it, and you have discussed them. I hope I am not getting to personal, and I hope I am not coming off in a condescending Christian sort of way. I frankly admit that you are much more knowledgeable on the subject, and probably a brighter bulb (well, who you going to brag to about that?). But I have to think that someone who lost so many precious years to a reliance on faith, would have to be awfully hateful towards the portion of their mind that would allow such a fateful mistep.
I am not saying certain unproveable things have to be true, rather I refuse to reject what is possible based on the fact that it isn't proveable. I guess it is a slippery slope when we swim out into the deep water of putting our trust in that which we can't validate. I myself only tread out far enough into the possible where I can still keep the shore of what I can validate in site. The funny part for me, is that what I thought was such deep water actually has alot of things to stand on. I have experienced things that seem to defy explanations apart from the ones I have put my trust in. But those are my experiences, I can't expect them to mean anything to you.
All I am saying is that if you open yourself up to the idea, I think God gives you what you need to have faith in him. Of course, maybe I am crazy and need my fix. Approximately,
Our belief = what we want to be true + facts*our reasoning
All this sure would be alot easier without that doggone offset.
Thanks for all your posts here. You probably do get me thinking more than most.
I promise you that once I don't need my faith as strategic cover, I will let all you agonstic/athiest types take your best shots. Right now, I just don't have the time.
CYP
hello everyone.
have recently met someone, amazing person!
however have many questions about jw's and wt.
One thing about Hassan's book's is they are very general. You will need to see how they apply to the jw in particular. IThinkIsee did some summaries awhile back on some of the chapters. Go through his history and you can find them. THey are pretty good.
CYP
after being a catholic and a jw i am really gun shy about organized religions.
i identify myself simply as a christian.
i am looking for a church to go to for fellowship.
I found a Bible Church.
What I did was write up a list of questions that I had, and I sent them around to all the local congregations and cults. It was a dual purpose effort. First I was genuinely curious about the churches in the area. Secondly, I got responses from other cults that were remarkeably similar to the jw. It helped lance the misconception that the jw doctrine is so unique that we simply have to ask, "where else could we go?!".
There are alot of places that teach the same stuff! Ironically most of them are legalistic and cultish also!
CYP
for those of you who will be disgusted that i even attended the meeting, let alone allow my son to give his first public talk tonight, please, spare me the shouting messages.
i take full responsibility for what i experienced this evening.
yet, i feel the need to share this experience that has me enraged.
Nobody giving you a hard time here. Don't beat yourself up. The jw mentality forces us into so many awkward situations. We are normal people who understand the concepts of parity and fairness and meeting people half way. In the dub world though there is no compromise. That is why we always come out on the short end of the exchanges.
Just one thought though on your son. They are trying to weasel around you. They always do. They can be places you can't. They can say things about you behind your back to your son.
Never take him in a KH sure. But be sure to give your rationale.
Being a dub has nothing to do with status with the org or baptism. Being a dub simply means you believe it. Make sure he understands why he shouldn't believe it.
CYP
the most eerie and fascinating passage i ever read in any of the jw literature (literature??
) was in the red book, life everlasting in freedom of the sons of god.
i wish i had written the quote down.
1.If you have never created anything or anyone you cannot be a CREATOR.
Who is to say that nothing was ever before created? Who is to say that there is not existence outside of our own perception or the one the Bible tells us about?
The idea of an omnipotent being, sitting around in nothingness for all eternity before our universe came into existence does seem kind of silly.
Imagine all possibilities, and then consider the scope of our existence. What appears to us as infinity could be merely infinitesimal. Even within the scope of temporal/matter/energy based existence we can't seem find the floor or the ceiling. We try to find the tiniest thing, and it always seems there is something tinier. We try to find the biggest, and the damn thing just keeps getting bigger.
In case you were wondering, alot of people used to say it was fun to drop acid with me...
I love the "if all things require a Creator, then so does the Creator argument". That always bakes my noodle.
okay, first thank you to the greastest degree for the warm welcome and insight you all have given itis and me since i've started visiting your very apostate site.
my life as a jw.
it starts with my maternal grandmother.
How about this FL,
think of all the things that "pissed you off" and figure out what it was about them that pissed you off. Was there a common theme? Is there a way the seed could have been planted that would not have pissed you off so much?
CYP
okay, first thank you to the greastest degree for the warm welcome and insight you all have given itis and me since i've started visiting your very apostate site.
my life as a jw.
it starts with my maternal grandmother.
Great stuff Freedom lover!
Thanks so much for posting this and helping us to understand. You are an interesting specimen for us ubm's.
Could you expand a little more on the things that pissed you off? Why exactly? Why weren't they effective? Is there a way he could have made it more effective?
I told Ithink awhile back, that you guys are on my world victory tour when my wife DA's. See you soon I hope!
CYP
hello everyone.
have recently met someone, amazing person!
however have many questions about jw's and wt.
Tell truth.
Ok, we get a guy like you about once every two weeks. I would go with the other guys advice. Run. If you marry this woman you will be expected to join, and your children will be expected to join. They are right so there is no compromise. They are right, and you are wrong. Find another woman. They are everywhere. She can't be that hot.
Still here?
1. Don't criticize the org. Only ask questions. Never imply through your questions that you are judging/stating as fact that the org is wrong.
2. Get a copy of Combatting Cult Mind Control and/or Releasing the Bonds by Steven Hassan.
3. Follow the steps in those books and consult this site and others for all things dub.
I can't tell you in words or in a way that you will apprecieate, just how much time and effort the above will take. I am married to a jw. I have to be here. I am trying to save my wife, and my children from a life of slavery and complete loss of self.
I told you we get a guy like you every couple of weeks. All are very enthused and determined when they get here, and oh so in love. They feel so chivalrous and heroic and dream of freeing their lady from the tower. After a couple of weeks, they realize what an incredible amount of bs they are getting themselves into, and they wisely move on. You don't want my life. Trust me.
You want to save someone? Save yourself!
CYP
just wondering.
i'm going to attend and was wondering what to read up on ahead of time.
Oh man did I need that.
I am glad you liked it. It popped into my head as an afterthought. I figured maybe 3 or 4 at most might think it was funny, but hey, if just one person is amused at the expense of the wt it is worth if for me.
