Jgnat,
I may not have hit it in any comprehensive way, but the issues of demonizing and scapegoating are SUCH common pitfalls, I really think they need to be included in any kind of discussion of how ubm's should handle things...
CYP
Check_Your_Premises
JoinedPosts by Check_Your_Premises
-
45
UBM strategies: Befriend the KH outcasts
by Check_Your_Premises inin the spirit of jgnat's strategies, and her "making friends" post:.
i have noticed that the kh has a heirarchy.
there are the elders families, and young couples that everyone wants to do things with because they have all these things in common.
-
-
-
45
UBM strategies: Befriend the KH outcasts
by Check_Your_Premises inin the spirit of jgnat's strategies, and her "making friends" post:.
i have noticed that the kh has a heirarchy.
there are the elders families, and young couples that everyone wants to do things with because they have all these things in common.
-
-
Check_Your_Premises
There is one other aspect of demonizing the JW that I wanted to address as well; scapegoating.
It is very easy to make the JW, in our mind, the cause of every problem. They are very problematic. The JW religion influences every aspect of our lives. The problem is though, by making the the demonic cause of every problem it can keep us from honestly looking at how we contribute to problems, or even other causes that are outside our influence.
Example: "We have a horrible relationship because we never see you at the holidays because your spouse is a JW"
Ok, there is truth to that statement. The time when everyone makes time to get together is on the holidays. But that doesn't mean the person making this statement couldn't do more THEMSELVES to make the relationship better. By scapegoating, and making the JW the only cause of the problem, it keeps them from taking responsibility for themselves. That is significant, because we are the only people we have any control over... if we are lucky!
CYP
-
45
UBM strategies: Befriend the KH outcasts
by Check_Your_Premises inin the spirit of jgnat's strategies, and her "making friends" post:.
i have noticed that the kh has a heirarchy.
there are the elders families, and young couples that everyone wants to do things with because they have all these things in common.
-
-
Check_Your_Premises
Jgnat, you nerd.
Of course that means I like it because I am a dork.
CYP
-
45
UBM strategies: Befriend the KH outcasts
by Check_Your_Premises inin the spirit of jgnat's strategies, and her "making friends" post:.
i have noticed that the kh has a heirarchy.
there are the elders families, and young couples that everyone wants to do things with because they have all these things in common.
-
-
Check_Your_Premises
This actually isn't a hypothetical discussion. I am not that creative.
I got this idea because my JW wife went to lunch with a depressed, older sister. She is an outcast. She told my wife, "the friends forget about some of us older ones"
I told her, "well we won't forget about them"
That came from a ubm. It came from a worldly. It came from someone who Jehovah will slaughter any day now.
Don't think those expressions of love don't cause difficult conflicts to rationalize.
CYP
-
45
UBM strategies: Befriend the KH outcasts
by Check_Your_Premises inin the spirit of jgnat's strategies, and her "making friends" post:.
i have noticed that the kh has a heirarchy.
there are the elders families, and young couples that everyone wants to do things with because they have all these things in common.
-
-
Check_Your_Premises
and that limits his exposure to jw's a little. At least on a social level.
THis is a good point Carla!
Yes, everything is a trade off. I never meant to imply that doing such things didn't have costs. You always have to ask if the costs outweigh the benefits.
I think he gets plenty of social interaction. Because I do go to the hall and to some of the meetings, I realize the extent to which she is influenced at the meetings and book study. I see how the social interaction appeals to her need for a sense of extended family. Now I see that as something I can address.
You can't influence the situation if you don't understand it.
CYP
-
45
UBM strategies: Befriend the KH outcasts
by Check_Your_Premises inin the spirit of jgnat's strategies, and her "making friends" post:.
i have noticed that the kh has a heirarchy.
there are the elders families, and young couples that everyone wants to do things with because they have all these things in common.
-
-
Check_Your_Premises
Terry made some great points about dillusions on another post. The problem with dillusions is they cause us to act in ways that aren't consistent with reality. When we act outside of what is reality, we can usually expect to get the well known "reality check". His analogy is that if you pretend a wall doesn't exist, eventually you are going to bloody your nose, bumping into that wall.
I think a wall that is easy to bump into is to demonize the JW. Believe me, I understand those who have become enraged by the mindless, runaway train that is the WT. The costs to me have been more than I ever thought I could bear, and they have literally taken from me the only thing that I ever hoped for.
But I think it is another thing altogether to take that anger, and what the WT is to me which is the greatest enemy I have ever faced, and apply that anger to each individual JW. They are not the WT. They are not even the JW. They are people who are "captives of a concept". They are dangerous. They are misguided. They are your enemy. But they are people. Just like us they have hopes and dreams. And when you reduce them to a one dimensional representation of all that is evil you are seperating yourself, to an extent, from reality. Additionally, when you have hatred as a motivation you actually end up becoming like what you despise. Eric Hoffer went into detail about how this phenomenon comes about in True Believer.
I guess it matters what your goals are. If your goals are to help your loved one to have the ability to have a different perspective, you are not served by giving in to hatred. It keeps you from behaving in a way that does not feed the persecution mentality your JW loved one. Additionally, validates their concept that people who aren't JW are so unbalanced.
In context of how you view other JW's, your hatred keeps you from reaping the benefits of the Godfather, "keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer". As an openly raving aggressor you are easily recognized and thwarted. As a cunning, hidden foe you are able to draw close to your enemy and "slit the throat" of his cult mind. You are able to observe and manipulate how your loved views those who influence him the most.
I guess it is a matter of whose needs you wish to serve. Your need for justice or your loved ones need for compassion and understanding. Just remember, nothing sticks it to the WT like a freed mind. Nothing supports their goals more then the hateful opposer who validates all the bonds of the JW mind.
CYP
-
45
UBM strategies: Befriend the KH outcasts
by Check_Your_Premises inin the spirit of jgnat's strategies, and her "making friends" post:.
i have noticed that the kh has a heirarchy.
there are the elders families, and young couples that everyone wants to do things with because they have all these things in common.
-
-
Check_Your_Premises
In the spirit of JGnat's strategies, and her "making friends" post:
I have noticed that the KH has a heirarchy. There are the elders families, and young couples that everyone wants to do things with because they have all these things in common. BUt then there are the divorced/older/single/married to ubm women and men. There are the very shy and quiet types. There are the older men that just don't "have what it takes" to be an elder. Nobody really talks to them or takes any interest in them.
Besides being a decent human being, and befriending the friendless, the KH outcasts provides two interesting opportunities for the ubm.
First, it is an opportunity to show genuine Christian love. By taking notice and interest in the outcasts, you provide a stark contrast to the status obsessive witness'. People notice these things.
Second, the outcast could be a valuable ally. The WT world thrives on a lack of info. The key info that a ubm always wants is the "inside info" on all the members of the cong. When you know the history and tendencies of the members, you know what motivates them and what to expect from them. Also as a ubm, you need to know what is said about you and your family. Again, if you are privy to this info you know what to expect from the members. The most important info you want is examples of or how to facilitate JWBB (JW behaving badly). Especially if it can be directed at you, the honest, yet unbelieving mate.
Thoughts?
CYP
-
-
-
Check_Your_Premises
Thanks Terry
CYP
-
15
New Tradition around here: How to handle disfellowshipping commitees
by Check_Your_Premises ini asked richie to do this, but he didn't get df'd... he got his priveleges reinstated!!!
anyone who remembers that one knows that richie came up with about the funniest picture anyone has ever posted here.
anyway.... i really want to start a collection here.
-
-
Check_Your_Premises
Or how about taking pictures of ourselves hiding candy canes or chocolate easter eggs in the bathrooms? We'll be making JW children happy around the world.
Oh man. The scandals that would cause. CYP
-
15
New Tradition around here: How to handle disfellowshipping commitees
by Check_Your_Premises ini asked richie to do this, but he didn't get df'd... he got his priveleges reinstated!!!
anyone who remembers that one knows that richie came up with about the funniest picture anyone has ever posted here.
anyway.... i really want to start a collection here.
-
-
Check_Your_Premises
I love you JGNAT!!!
How about taking pictures of ourselves like Richie, but doing all sorts of apostate things. Take a picture holding COC. Or maybe take a picture with a cigarrette in your mouth or wearing a cross!!!
CYP