So trojan... give us something to substantiate what you are hinting about yourself.
And if you are inside the tower, how did the tort of misrepresentation article go over?
CYP
Check_Your_Premises
JoinedPosts by Check_Your_Premises
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12
What if Tyrannosaurus Rex still existed?
by AlmostAtheist inzach (my 7 year old) and i were playing with his dinosaurs last night.
he has a 2 foot long rubber t-rex with huge teeth and claws.
i turned it to him, opened the mouth wide, and said "roar!".
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Check_Your_Premises
I think they would be killed off to the brink of extinction, and the remaining ones would live in only remote areas.
They probably would be like any modern day super-predator, like lions, grizzly, tigers.
There would some crazed aussie, wearing ball-crusher shorts, running around in some sort of armored vehicle, saying, "crikey!".
And every once in awhile some poor bastard would be at the wrong place in the wrong time.
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55
im hurt, desperate, confused and considering this religion - advice?
by very_confused inlike the subject title says, i'm hurt, desperate and confused and don't know what to do anymore.
i'm so desperate to have something to live for that i'm considering converting to something like the jehovah's witnesses.
i know this might seem a bit extreme but please hear me out.
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Check_Your_Premises
Hey vc,
Sounds like you are taking some of the thoughts on this board to heart. I guess I don't want to add to the advice. Just know that many of us have been where you are at. You are at a funny age. You are finding your place in the world, and figuring out who you want to be.
I don't know if you live with your folks. It sounds like you haven't been happy for a long time. It sounds like there is something that you haven't dealt with or learned to live with. I guess only you know what that is.
I also have found that when I am in states such as yours, it helps to remember past times when I was really down. Eventually, the sun came up. Better times approached. Kind of like when it is nighttime, and all the demons in your head come. You start to have all these horrible thoughts. All seems hopeless. Then you doze off, wake up in the morning, and for some reason things just don't seem so bad anymore. When you are down it is just so easy to forget about all the good things in your life. I for one am jealous of your years. I sure wish I could have some back.
I am rambling a bit here. I am mostly trying to tell you that it is normal that you are feeling this way. We have all been there. Just don't go imagining that you are the only person who has felt this way.
CYP
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20
Got any good questions about Blood issue?
by whyizit ina dialogue has opened up between me and a jw friend about their stance on blood.
just wondered if any of you were ever asked a question that made you think twice, or if you have any questions that you think would be good to ask?
(i don't want to offend this person.
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Check_Your_Premises
I am familiar with the Mark argument and have used it myself.
The counter for it is the one about "this command stands for time indefiinite, don't eat blood or fat". I don't remember which one that is.
CYP
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20
Got any good questions about Blood issue?
by whyizit ina dialogue has opened up between me and a jw friend about their stance on blood.
just wondered if any of you were ever asked a question that made you think twice, or if you have any questions that you think would be good to ask?
(i don't want to offend this person.
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Check_Your_Premises
Oh yeah, one other thing on "abstain from blood", cuz when you pester them they will get to making a big deal out of "abstain clearly means to avoid completely!!!"
Let them really make a big deal out of that one. Then say, "well if it means in some total, all encompassing sense, why is it ok to take fractions? I mean, isn't taking fractions like saying you can't have a car, but here are all the parts and you can build it on your own?"
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Got any good questions about Blood issue?
by whyizit ina dialogue has opened up between me and a jw friend about their stance on blood.
just wondered if any of you were ever asked a question that made you think twice, or if you have any questions that you think would be good to ask?
(i don't want to offend this person.
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Check_Your_Premises
has a link to Chapter 9 of In Search of Christian Freedom which is about the best debunking of the blood doctrine out there.
is a web site that stands for associated jw for reform on blood. They have all sorts of info their as well.
Happy hunting.
CYP
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Got any good questions about Blood issue?
by whyizit ina dialogue has opened up between me and a jw friend about their stance on blood.
just wondered if any of you were ever asked a question that made you think twice, or if you have any questions that you think would be good to ask?
(i don't want to offend this person.
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Check_Your_Premises
This is not a comprehensive list. These questions are only from scriptures and wt. You could also bring up medical facts and the risks of transfusions.
WT summary:
1. The whole blood doctrine is based first on the use of Genesis 9:5 where God told Noah to poor out blood and give it back to Him. It can't be eaten! This means that blood is sacred.
2. Next there is in Leviticus I think, a section about pouring blood on the altar. It can't be eaten! This means blood is only to be used for sacrifice.
3. Finally in Acts there is a couple of verses that say "abstain from blood". This means abstain completely, totally, and entirely!!!
Some good setup questions:
If you are reading a verse, you are often able to come up with several different meanings right? I mean abstain from blood wasn't likely referring to blood transfusions because they weren't taking place at that time. So that means we have to take that verse and apply it to mean it includes blood transfusions, right?
So when we take a verse and try to find it's meaning in our lives, should we pick the most likely, or the one that is most difficult for us?
For 1 and 2 you could simply say:
"BUt in those verses, isn't it talking about something that died. I mean isn't that why blood is sacred because it represents the life lost? Isn't that the same reason blood is used for sacrifice? I mean there is nothing magical about blood, it is a symbol of the life lost right?"
"Isn't saying you should be willing to die rather than be disrespectful to the symbol of life (blood), kind of like saying I will sacrifice my marriage to save my wedding ring?"
"As a rule, isn't it a good thing to be REALLY difficult to convince that God wants you to let your kids die?"
For 3 you could say:
"How do you abstain from an object? I mean don't you abstain in the form of an action? I mean if I say I abstain from junkfood, you know that I mean I abstain from EATING junkfood. It is obviously implied. So if that verse says abstain from blood, doesn't that mean the writer didn't put the specific action in their, because it is so obviously implied? So the question is what action in regards to blood was so obviously taking place that the writer didn't see the need to say it explicitly? Was it blood tranfusions?"
THey will probably say:
If a doctor told you to abstain from alcohol, would you think it was ok to inject it into your viens?
Respond:
Well if it was my family practioner I would say yes, but then if it was my dermatologist I would figure he was telling me not to use products with alcohol on my skin. See context matters here.
Eventually he will get flustered and rely on the credibility of the org and God's arrangement:
At this point you have them. First ask:
"So the WT says that is what those verses mean? But didn't they used to say it was wrong to have an organ transplant or vaccinations? So did God tell them to make those mistakes? Or did they make a mistake, in which case doesn't that mean they can't be trusted to interpret the blood verses correclty? " (point them to reexamine.org)
"Does God expect you to obey the org, at the risk of your own life, when they are wrong?"
Then they will say they have to obey Jehovah's organization:
Now you really got 'em
"Well when Jesus showed up, God's organization wanted to kill him. Judas obeyed God's organization and betrayed Jesus, instead of following his conscience. Judas wasn't rewarded. He was reviled and judged!"
CYP
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55
im hurt, desperate, confused and considering this religion - advice?
by very_confused inlike the subject title says, i'm hurt, desperate and confused and don't know what to do anymore.
i'm so desperate to have something to live for that i'm considering converting to something like the jehovah's witnesses.
i know this might seem a bit extreme but please hear me out.
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Check_Your_Premises
Hey very confused. Glad to have you here. Sorry to hear about your troubles and, well, confusion.
I hope you can find some good friends here. It does take some time. I have always learned to be VERY suspicious of people who all of a sudden are my best friend. It is nice and all, but after awhile it always turns out they were selling something.
Real friendships are built up over time through a slow process of give and take, where trust is slowly given, accepted, and proven. They are also based on similar likes, dislikes, and values.
That is interesting that you are seeking some answers in a RELIGION. Remember, a religion is a group of people who just so happen to have some specific ideas about God and hwo to worship Him. But religion is always a group of people. Maybe what you are seeking is God? If you are seeking God, why not just talk to Him? If you believe the Bible is His word, read it. I just encourage you to not think you have to be with the right group or in the right building to find God.
I also want to caution you. You probably see that since you are kind off balance right now, it would be VERY easy for an abusive group to sell you on an abusive religion. Many people join groups like the moonies or scientology because they are in a hard time in their life, and some group acts like they have all the answers. Steven Hassan is a cult expert. His site is releasingthebonds.org. He was in a real down time and he joined the mooonies.
So be careful PLEASE! I used to think life was fair, and that if something bad happened to me it was ok, because that meant something good had to be around the corner. But then I used to watch the animal shows and see how that when an animal got hurt, it didn't mean he would get a break. It actually meant all the PREDATORS were going to go right after HIM!!! I also tragically learned it in my own life. When my family was at it's weakest, the predators came. But they didn't have fangs. They were the nicest, most decent people. And they had all these pretty pictures and stories about paradise.
Again be careful. Life doesn't suffer fools, and it is awfully tough on those in weak moments. And however bad things are, you are only 20. You got a lot of good years to turn 'em around.
CYP
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UBM strategies: Befriend the KH outcasts
by Check_Your_Premises inin the spirit of jgnat's strategies, and her "making friends" post:.
i have noticed that the kh has a heirarchy.
there are the elders families, and young couples that everyone wants to do things with because they have all these things in common.
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Check_Your_Premises
Hey Serendipity,
You said:
This suggestion seems to making use of the outcasts for a goal of getting a JW mate to leave. As one of those outcasts, I would be really pissed if someone were just "using" me. Especially if the friendship was dropped after the JW left.
Now if you noticed I actually thought of how I was communicating this idea, and I did not want to convey the idea that it would be right to use people in this way. On the contrary, I think that would be kind of, well JW like. I am not going to love bomb someone, and then stop talking to them when I am through with them or find a new prospect.
So to keep from communicating that idea, I put this thought in there.
Besides being a decent human being, and befriending the friendless, the KH outcasts provides two interesting opportunities for the ubm.
Thanks for bringing up this point though. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to misunderstand what I meant CYP
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UBM strategies: Befriend the KH outcasts
by Check_Your_Premises inin the spirit of jgnat's strategies, and her "making friends" post:.
i have noticed that the kh has a heirarchy.
there are the elders families, and young couples that everyone wants to do things with because they have all these things in common.
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Check_Your_Premises
Carla,
I thought about this thread alot over the weekend. This response was the one I was anticipating.
CYP-----------------------------------------Not sure if you are directing that at me CYP, but I am not unbalanced, unhinged or out of control. I am merely trying to figure out how to get on with my life the best as possible having a spouse who is in a destructive cult.
Understand that the attitudes I was describing were actually myself, and the issues I have dealt with in my little dance with the WTBS. I sometimes speak abstractly when others are speaking in a deeply personal way. I wasn't applying any sort of description to anybody in particular, rather I was pointing out the possible dangers of certain types of thinking.
I don't know if that makes sense.
I should have been more sensetive to how my posts would be received. I am sorry if I implied in anyway that you are unhinged. Rather I was trying to point out the dangers of letting yourself get that way.
And remember, I want you to help your husband get control over his life. Whatever will work is the right thing to do!
CYP