Check_Your_Premises

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Posts by Check_Your_Premises

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  8

  Anyone at the DC in DeKalb Illinois yesterday?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  Check_Your_Premises
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  13

  The most critical question about the JW and pedophilia?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  when looking at the jw pedophilia problem it is important to make the distinction between "theocratic" and secular authorities.

  as we all know, the jw consider only their authority to be legitimate and secular authorities as a necessary evil to be "rendered unto".. here is my summary of the pedophilia problem in the organization:.

  1. a person accused of pedophilia by a child cannot be found guilty within the org without another witness.. .

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  Check_Your_Premises

  If you go to the above link you will find that what is presented on this thread is very much in error.

  Ok, I went to the link. Admittedly I didn't read every word because I don't have time at the moment. Upon reflection I realize my original post has left out alot of details. Admittedly, this is a very complicated subject. I certainly wouldn't want to join the slanderous crowd that tries to imply that the wt is evil simply because there are pedophiles in their midst. Pedophiles are everywhere.

  Where the wt comes under scrutiny is in considering the question of whether or not their policies in anyway protect pedophiles, or fail to protect children.

  I think we all can, and should agree, that protecting children is the highest priority. It should have priority over the reputation of any individual jw. It should have priority over protecting the wt from the bad publicity of having a pedophile in their ranks.

  With that said, instead of posting a link, could you answer the "most critical" question? Or could you ask the question to the wt itself?

  "Are there any cases where a jw has pressed charges against a jw pedophile, and they have not been punished in anyway by the congregation"

  The last time I heard the question asked, the wt only produced two cases and they were cases of non-jw's who molested jw's. If the wt can't even produce a number of such cases, then that is a very strong indication that there is a unspoken policy to keep all cases of molestation hidden from secular authorities.

  This policy would leave children at risk because ONLY placing pedophiles in prison can protect children completely.
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  13

  The most critical question about the JW and pedophilia?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  when looking at the jw pedophilia problem it is important to make the distinction between "theocratic" and secular authorities.

  as we all know, the jw consider only their authority to be legitimate and secular authorities as a necessary evil to be "rendered unto".. here is my summary of the pedophilia problem in the organization:.

  1. a person accused of pedophilia by a child cannot be found guilty within the org without another witness.. .

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  Check_Your_Premises

  When looking at the jw pedophilia problem it is important to make the distinction between "theocratic" and secular authorities. As we all know, the jw consider only their authority to be legitimate and secular authorities as a necessary evil to be "rendered unto".

  Here is my summary of the pedophilia problem in the organization:

  1. A person accused of pedophilia by a child cannot be found guilty within the org without another witness.

  2. A person accused or even found guilty within the org will not be turned in to secular authorities unless the state has mandatory notification laws.

  3. A person accused of or found guilty of pedophilia within the org or by secular authorities will not have his specific guilt made known within the congregation because that would cause "division". Anyone making this info known could be df.

  4. A person found guilty by secular authorities will suffer no sanction within the org, and anyone making this info known would be df. There does seem to be a strict df policy for those caught outside the org and reported to the press. Did Jesus Cano have two witnesses come forward for his df?

  5. A basic refusal to acknowledge that pedophilia is chronic and incurable. People who have practiced pedophilia but "repented", eventually can be allowed to have leadership positions and go door to door.

  These first 5 deal with "theocratic" justice. As we can see, these leave the congregation and the general pubilc in the dark as to the tendencies of it's pedophile members, and therefore leaves children at risk. The most serious question though is in regards to secular authorities. The best protection for children is to simply have pedophiles locked up. Officially there is no sanction within the congregation against reporting a jw pedophile to the police. However, the Dateline special presented people who were disfellowshipped apparantly for doing just that. Furthermore, when they requested information on cases where jw's had reported abuse to the police, they only presented two cases. And those were both cases of a jw being abused by a non-jw.

  This evidence very strongly implies that reporting abuse to secular authorities is not allowed within the theocracy and therefore would be guilty of protecting pedophiles. How else do you explain an organization having 1 million members in the US, but not being able to produce a single case where a jw reported abuse by a jw and the accuser was not disfellowshipped. Is that still the case? We all here know that the society has an unnofficial rule to df those who report pedophilia. But how do we make it clear to those who don't want to accept it?

  To me this is the most critical question.

  What are the cases where a jw has reported sexual abuse of a child by another jw, and that jw was not in anyway punished or disfellowshipped.

  Sounds like a good question to ask next time some one gets that JR Brown guy on the phone. Anyone? Beuller? (and the crickets said... chirp-chirp)

  CYP
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  23

  Thank you all so much!! I think I am going to spend less time in WT land...

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i showed up here about a year and a half ago confused and in shock.

  i was yet the latest victim of the runaway train that is the wt.

  my wife joined the wt and i was surrounded by drones doing their level headed best to consume my family while i am at work paying for it all.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Just poppin in to say hey!

  I just wanted to report a bit on my vacation from the WT and JWD.

  First of all thanks to those who responded with all your kind words. I do cherish my friends here so much. I know I will continue to need you all for support. Those who know me best know where to find me when they need mine.

  I also must say that I have thoroughly enjoyed my time away! I can not escape the WT because they have come to dominate the lives of people very close to me. There is simply no escape. They are in my home! But by reducing the footprint of the wt in my life to the barest of minimums has really expanded my horizons and raised my spirits.

  And even when the day comes when my family finally does move on, how can I forget the abomination of the wt and the countless, nameless victims in their wake? How can I forget all the lessons I have learned in helping wt victims? Has any knowledge ever come to me at a greater price! Again, I will be here fighting the wt with you all. It just won't be my whole life anymore. I have to take on the slow, steady gate of a long distance runner rather than the short-sighted, desperate all-out I have been pursuing.

  We can only have so many thoughts in a day. By dwelling on these poor, lost, incredibly obnoxious souls more than we have to, we close ourselves off to the opportunities that surround us.

  I must also say that being married to a jw is so incredibly maddening and taxing, that the last thing I need is anything else getting me worked up. I need every shred of patience, calm, and wisdom to keep from flipping out. Because every time I do flip out, I know I am simply wrapping another chain and lock around my family, and satan smiles.

  So take care until next time. I am sorry I am not here more to give the support many of you need. Maybe in better times. I also know that there are plenty of good folks here who are helping you get through and past your little dance with the wt.

  Well that is enough time for me in Russel's little fantasy land... (ha! it just occurred to me that Russel is kind of the Disney of religion, he created a neat little theme park that helps his sad followers to escape the real world)

  Back to the real world me....

  CYP
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  23

  Thank you all so much!! I think I am going to spend less time in WT land...

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i showed up here about a year and a half ago confused and in shock.

  i was yet the latest victim of the runaway train that is the wt.

  my wife joined the wt and i was surrounded by drones doing their level headed best to consume my family while i am at work paying for it all.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I showed up here about a year and a half ago confused and in shock. I was yet the latest victim of the runaway train that is the WT. My wife joined the WT and I was surrounded by drones doing their level headed best to consume my family while I am at work paying for it all.

  Thank you so much for all you have done to get me through this time. If it weren't for some of you I would definitely be divorced, and possibly even in prison with the blood of some prominent JW's on my hands. Here is a little tip for you, don't leave a Marine with no options and nothing to lose.

  I think I have recovered from the initial shock of my wife's cult affliction. I have come to understand my circumstance. I have worked through the mourning and have accepted what my marriage actually is. I have a sound strategy that is being implemented over time. I plan to fight the WT with my dying breath, but I need to do it in a way that doesn't consume me either. If I allow that I have not only given what they have taken, but also everything I have left.

  I think it is time to give up my obsession. I still have to fight. I still have to be engaged. But I am going to operate more on a part time basis.

  As a result I will probably be spending less time here at jwd. I just get so filled with the negativity and rage over the abomination that is the WT and all they have cost me. It just isn't healthy anymore.

  I am going to try to focus more now on my family, especially my children, my career, my new store, doing some good in this world, and enjoying the moments of my life.

  The times and moments and circumstance always seem so permanent at the time, but people and opportunities just fly by never to return before you even get a chance to appreciate them.

  I don't want to wake up someday like my wife realizing I have sacrificed so many precious moments and relationships on things I couldn't change, control, or that didn't matter.

  I just want to be happy again. The less the wt is in my life the better.

  CYP
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  72

  Big announcement after all DC have ended?

  by Quandary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was told by a reliable source that the organization will be making a "big announcement" at the end of the summer when all the dcs have ended.

  has anyone else heard this?

  maybe this is the "new light" they have alluded to in recent wt study articles?

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  Check_Your_Premises

  and John Lithgow in the lower left.

  Imagine you are a brainwashed propaganda artist for a creepy cult, who would you want to kill more? John Lithgow or Ray Franz?

  I am surprised there isn't a flaming rock smashing, and simultaneously obscuring the full title of Crisis of Conscience.

  CYP
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  72

  Big announcement after all DC have ended?

  by Quandary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was told by a reliable source that the organization will be making a "big announcement" at the end of the summer when all the dcs have ended.

  has anyone else heard this?

  maybe this is the "new light" they have alluded to in recent wt study articles?

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  Check_Your_Premises

  The guy in the lower left hand corner of the picture posted first looks suspiciously like Ray Franz.

  "ooooh is Jehovah going to send a flaming rock at his head when Armageddon comes!!!", thinks the artist drawing silly cult propaganda.

  CYP
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  28

  Sending a Message to Brooklyn, Big Time!

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well last night i was doing a few boaring things and then this idea just popped in my head.

  i was thinking about differant ways that a true 'disturbance' could happen from the ground up in the organization.

  the basic idea is this: .

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Actually that is a brilliant idea... I think it was mentioned before the last memorial.

  If we started pushing now, and other apostate sites cooperated, it wouldn't take much to create a big bump.

  There are only a few thousand right now I think. What if just a few thousand more partook?

  It would be annoying for them... but that is probably about all.

  CYP
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  17

  How long do they tolerate you being "spiritually weak" in the beginning...

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...before they give up on you and just label you as a theocratic slacker/outcast?.

  i have picked up that many in our congregation are considered weak or irregular.

  it appears that they are "encouraged" but eventually they are given up on and considered a "bad association".. my wife, even when she is at her most dubbed out, only makes field service twice a week, and she can only keep that up for a couple weeks.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I hope it doesnt take her 20 years to see the truth, like it did me (sigh)...................

  Yeah me too! Cuz I won't be around in 20 years.

  It is so sad when people destroy the relationships with the people who REALLY matter and care to follow delusions or seeking the approval of those who don't. You just can't ever get those things back. Once they are gone they are gone forever. And you are left with nothing but unbearable regret.
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  17

  How long do they tolerate you being "spiritually weak" in the beginning...

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...before they give up on you and just label you as a theocratic slacker/outcast?.

  i have picked up that many in our congregation are considered weak or irregular.

  it appears that they are "encouraged" but eventually they are given up on and considered a "bad association".. my wife, even when she is at her most dubbed out, only makes field service twice a week, and she can only keep that up for a couple weeks.

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  Check_Your_Premises

  Although she will become a target for some sisters to "encourage"

  Oh yeah... they are all over her... and my kids.

  To be expected.

  They have nothing better to do, and if more people aren't buying their little dream world it is hard evidence to them that it might not be true. Can't have that. Must bring more into the fold to keep the fantasy alive. That is why I was wondering how she would be viewed with those kind of performance stats. She is always being encouraged.

  I just have to keep playing the game and have faith in my overall strategies.

  1. Protect the kids first.

  2. Avoid persecuting or challenging her faith unless it violates 1. Build trust and rapport whenever possible.

  3. Create an overall environment that provides a sound alternative and social structure to the cult.

  4. Create a general awareness and aversion in the home to emotional abuse.

  5. Make the free exchange of ideas and information possible in the home.

  6. Avoid outright hostility with the greater jw community, and build trust and rapport whenever possible.

  The crazy pioneer lady recognizes and actively works, manipulates, and guilt trips to undermine the above.

  CYP