Posts by Check_Your

48

Wife arranging for me to study with a brother! I need a plan!

by M.J. in

here's the situation.

my wife couldn't answer some deep issues i've raised regarding a few of the wts's teachings and dishonest representation of historical sources.

naturally, she attributes her lack of answers to her own lack of research and knowledge.

Check_Your_Premises

Bebu is clearly an apostate and an agent of Satan since she disagrees with me, God's appointed represe...

Sorry. I just took my meds. I suffer from Rutheford-Russel syndrome. It is an acute and severe form of schizophrenia which causes you to imagine yourself an agent of God, and all who don't agree with every word you say, an agent of satan.

The patient is often overcome by a desire to publish silly magazines and bother strangers when they are at home, trying to watch a football game. When I am having one of my fits I work on my magazine, "The Look-Out-Tree-Fort".

Any of you ever heard of it?

But seriously. Whatever you decide to do, keep us posted with an "after-action" report. That will help us all to refine our methods and strategies.

48

Wife arranging for me to study with a brother! I need a plan!

by M.J. in

here's the situation.

my wife couldn't answer some deep issues i've raised regarding a few of the wts's teachings and dishonest representation of historical sources.

naturally, she attributes her lack of answers to her own lack of research and knowledge.

Check_Your_Premises

I frankly disagree that studying a book isn't helpful.

This is a war. In war you almost never want to oppose force with force. You want to use your enemies force and channel it in a way that leads to their defeat. That concept is a first principle of war.

By studying a book you are signaling to your wife that you are "interested" and open to her religion. You are working out your strategy but your conversion to jw is the ultimate goal of her strategies. You need to be aware of that fact and utilize it. By understanding her strategy you can harness and re-direct it.

If you aren't open to her religion (direct opposition), you are an opposer and to be avoided. In that situation you would have no chance to help her leave. You would be defeated in your ultimate goal.

Besides, I actually learn some things about the Bible from my study. Really the only problem I have with the jw, and it is very significant, is TFDS doctrine. That really is the fountainhead of all that is vile with the jw.

Were it not for that teaching they would be a nothing more than a solid group of conscientious Christians with a different take than orthodox Christianity. I might even consider joining?

48

Wife arranging for me to study with a brother! I need a plan!

by M.J. in

here's the situation.

my wife couldn't answer some deep issues i've raised regarding a few of the wts's teachings and dishonest representation of historical sources.

naturally, she attributes her lack of answers to her own lack of research and knowledge.

Check_Your_Premises

Good point Bebu,

How about that MJ. What does your wife think your motive is? Are you trying to "be open minded and learn more about her religion", or does she think "he is trying to prove the jw wrong"?

If your wife thinks it is the second reason, stump-the-chump could backfire big time... especially if you kick his ass.

48

Wife arranging for me to study with a brother! I need a plan!

by M.J. in

here's the situation.

my wife couldn't answer some deep issues i've raised regarding a few of the wts's teachings and dishonest representation of historical sources.

naturally, she attributes her lack of answers to her own lack of research and knowledge.

Check_Your_Premises

If you do this,

1. let's pick a topic

2. Write out the questions.

3. Let our esteemed and worthy former dub brethren here give you their painfully predictable talking point responses.

4. and then we can provide the punch lines.

Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

Game-Set-Match

48

Wife arranging for me to study with a brother! I need a plan!

by M.J. in

here's the situation.

my wife couldn't answer some deep issues i've raised regarding a few of the wts's teachings and dishonest representation of historical sources.

naturally, she attributes her lack of answers to her own lack of research and knowledge.

Check_Your_Premises

The main thing I care about is opening the eyes of my wife. If studying with this guy serves that end purpose in any way, I'll do it.

I hear you. If you think she would be receptive, and you think you can kick this guys ass, I say go for it.

Make sure you don't come off like a jerk. No end-zone-celebration-spiking-the-football type stuff. Although it would be alot of fun.

(said while standing over him and kicking him in they arse and stuffing a crumpled watchtower in his mouth)

"Who's the apostate agent of Satan now beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeotch!"

Sorry, I just couldn't help developing that mental image. It was to fun!

48

Wife arranging for me to study with a brother! I need a plan!

by M.J. in

here's the situation.

my wife couldn't answer some deep issues i've raised regarding a few of the wts's teachings and dishonest representation of historical sources.

naturally, she attributes her lack of answers to her own lack of research and knowledge.

Check_Your_Premises

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/90469/1.ashx

It is about the local clergy letter I told you I was thinking of writing. I actually just emailed this link to you before you started this thread.

48

Wife arranging for me to study with a brother! I need a plan!

by M.J. in

here's the situation.

my wife couldn't answer some deep issues i've raised regarding a few of the wts's teachings and dishonest representation of historical sources.

naturally, she attributes her lack of answers to her own lack of research and knowledge.

Check_Your_Premises

Some more thoughts on "Stump the Chump"

As we all know, dubs are not dubs because they necessarily believe what the org says. They are dubs because it fulfills a need they have. Security, order, guilt, whatever.

As we all also know, there is absolutely no point in bringing up criticisms of the org unless the dub in question is actually open to the idea.

Is your wife open to criticisms of the org in a way that could realistically cause her to question her faith in the org?

Do you have a reason to think this? Is it realistic or could you be blinded by hope?

Those are rhetorical questions, but I think you need to ask yourself them.

I think you might have only so many chances at "Stump the Chump". You want to do it at the right time.

If you are sure the time is now, let's think of a list of subjects that you can go through each time. Ask the questions. Give the chump all the time in the world to answer them.

And set him up with your questions.

Example,

Q: "is it true that the jw predicted the end of the world?"

A: "JW never said it would happen for sure, the dates were only put out as a possibility."

Response: "But here in the 1925 Watchtower it says that it is a certainty and chronology is from God not man!"

You get the idea. Game-Set-Match.

This is a cross-examination. You must plan every question, and anticipate every response. And as any lawyer will tell you, you never ask a question that you don't know the answer to.

MJ, I know I already said some of this, it was more for the benefit of the current conversation.

48

Wife arranging for me to study with a brother! I need a plan!

by M.J. in

here's the situation.

my wife couldn't answer some deep issues i've raised regarding a few of the wts's teachings and dishonest representation of historical sources.

naturally, she attributes her lack of answers to her own lack of research and knowledge.

Check_Your_Premises

From another thread.

I actually am thinking of using a different twist to the "stump the chump" approach. I was thinking of doing it without my wife present. Then when my wife asks me about the study afterwards I will tell her what the questions and answers were. I think this might be more effective because I feel if she is present it would be easier for her to choose sides and put up her jw shield. By asking me she is naturally going to be more receptive to what I tell her. She won't be in cult mode so much. I may be wrong. Just a theory.
The additional benefit to this method is that if you catch a brother who is pretty good, he might kick your ass! By using my method you could limit your wifes exposure to your ass kicking. I think seeing a brother whip my ass would really reinforce her idea that I don't know what I am talking about, and that there is really nothing to this apostate stuff. A single incident could provide her all the cover she needs to write off anything else I might bring up.

48

Wife arranging for me to study with a brother! I need a plan!

by M.J. in

here's the situation.

my wife couldn't answer some deep issues i've raised regarding a few of the wts's teachings and dishonest representation of historical sources.

naturally, she attributes her lack of answers to her own lack of research and knowledge.

Check_Your_Premises

Why not study alone to asses his abilities. Once you think it is safe, then bring your wife in?

Why can't you do both?

44

Help me set up my JW wife: What should I look for in a church?

by Check_Your_Premises in

i am a never baptized ubm.

my jw wife is unhappy that i am looking for other churches.

after careful thought and several conversations we have agreed not to treat each other from the assumption that improper motives are behind whatever either of us decide to believe.

Check_Your_Premises

Good points Old Soul,

But actually that is more of a different topic then what I am going for here. What I am looking for on this thread is DEFENSE. I am being challenged directly for attending other churches. I simply lack the ability/knowledge to defend myself or the churches I am attending. I can offer a strong reason why I as a conscientous Christian do not feel comfortable with TFDS doctrine (just a perception, not a judgement), but I can't articulate why other churches are not worse.

This is not meant to be an attack on the jw, it is a defense of my decision. I would never attack the jw to my jw wife, that would be counter productive.

What you are talking about is more of a "stump the chump". I may employ that method at some point, but I still am thinking about the strategies involved. MJ is actually thinking about using that approach.

I actually am thinking of using a different twist to the "stump the chump" approach. I was thinking of doing it without my wife present. Then when my wife asks me about the study afterwards I will tell her what the questions and answers were. I think this might be more effective because I feel if she is present it would be easier for her to choose sides and put up her jw shield. By asking me she is naturally going to be more receptive to what I tell her. She won't be in cult mode so much. I may be wrong. Just a theory.

The additional benefit to this method is that if you catch a brother who is pretty good, he might kick your ass! By using my method you could limit your wifes exposure to your ass kicking. I think seeing a brother whip my ass would really reinforce her idea that I don't know what I am talking about, and that there is really nothing to this apostate stuff. A single incident could provide her all the cover she needs to write off anything else I might bring up.

Check_Your_Premises

Posts by Check_Your_Premises