i just got an im from afin.
apparantly she can't post right now.
i don't know what she did exactly, so i can't speak to her specific offense, but in general i think the absolutely wrong thing to do is ban j-dubs who come here to debate.. .
Yeah Gringo, I was jumping on AFIN there. That is why she IM'ed me.
Tell you what, AFIN, if you are out there, I will post the IM you sent me with your permission.
Just that one though, I am not going to serve as a proxy. I might get disfel... I mean banned myself!!!
CYP
i just got an im from afin.
apparantly she can't post right now.
i don't know what she did exactly, so i can't speak to her specific offense, but in general i think the absolutely wrong thing to do is ban j-dubs who come here to debate.. .
I just got an IM from AFIN. Apparantly she can't post right now. I don't know what she did exactly, so I can't speak to her specific offense, but in general I think the absolutely wrong thing to do is ban J-Dubs who come here to debate.
I think we all can agree with the following statement: The most important thing is for us to find the truth.
The truth should never fear any examination, debate, questioning, or challenge. The truth should always welcome those things. The truth stands on it's own and trusts that these activities will always vindicate it.
Falsehood on the other hand requires darkness, silencing, banishment, and edicts from authority squelching any questioning of legitimacy. It can't stand on it's own without these things. Falsehood knows without these dishonest activites, it will be found lacking.
I therefore think it sends the wrong message to our JW brethren when we attack or ask for them to be banned. It shows that we don't have faith that truth can stand on it's own, or that we are afraid of the truth itself!!!
Isn't that type of intolerance and intellectual cowardice why so many of you left the JW in the first place? Doesn't "banning" sound an awful lot like "disfellowshipping"?
Now I am not saying we should indulge disruptors. People who come here for no other reason then to keep us from having a conversation should not be allowed to remain. That is a form of "silencing" in itself, and prevents open debate. Such decisions should be made for anybody engaging in such behavior regardless of their beleifs. Ideally such a decision would be made from predefined rules.
I am not saying this wasn't the case for AFIN, I am just saying this is the ideal.
And finally, yes this is Simon's house. We are guests here. Whatever he says goes. I am merely advocating an ideal, and I hope we all will keep the spirit of that ideal in mind when our JW friends show up to spar.
So here is my request that we simply beat the JW's here in the fair and open arena of ideas. We don't need to ban them. They "ban" themselves with their sad, misguided ideas.
And as a Christian, I feel we have a need to show them all the compassion, love, and help we can. Lord knows they need it.
hi friends.
well its seems my wife has hit a standstill with the dubs.
some of you may know my situation, but i guess its all relative anyway.
Be sure to respond by ignoring my questions, and accusing me of something.
or you could just "get up, brush yourself off, and move on as if nothing happened"
I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you haven't read my response....
...for awhile. I have nothing better to do. I am still waiting for a response from those other dubs.
Please don't ever leave AFIN!! I love you and respect you so much for coming here. I am not being sarcastic!!! It has to be tough to come here and duke it out with all these knowledgeable former dubs.
Take care of yourself. Jesus loves you.
CYP
hi friends.
well its seems my wife has hit a standstill with the dubs.
some of you may know my situation, but i guess its all relative anyway.
cyp ... do you remember what Jesus said about pearls?
So anytime you hear a question you don't like, you just label the asker a swine, and whatever you have to offer as pearls?
Hey, whatever let's you look yourself in the mirror, I guess.
That sounds a lot like cowardice to me. Have you considered a more objective method?
I am not sure the verse was used by Jesus to justify shirking difficult questions. I think it was more of a suggestion that time could be better spent talking to those who are open to the message of repentance and salvation, as opposed to those who simply spit upon such words.
See in the analogy, the person with the pearls is doing the action, he is "casting". The pigs never asked for the pearls.
In my case, I am asking. I am waiting for your pearls, or any other jw. The simple fact is that I only care about serving Jehovah and following him in truth. If I apply a scriptural test, and your organization passes it, I will have to acknowledge that.
The question is if your organization doesn't, what will you do?
What will you do if you find your beloved religion contradicting Jehovah? You cannot serve two masters. Who really has your loyalty?
The simple fact is that in 1919, when Jesus was making his examination, your organization was falsely claiming that Christ returned in 1874. This sort of behavior was clearly described as the actions of a false prophet.
Why would Christ select a false prophet?
You will likely say that they were the only ones teaching that Jesus was not God, the soul is not eternal, hell is not hot, we don't go to heaven but will live on a restored earth... but that isn't true either. The Christadelphians were teaching identical doctrine in 1919, as was the Iglesia Ni Cristo.
"Everybody stumbles on the truth at some point, most pick themselves up, brush themselves off, and hurry off as if nothing happened" -Winston Churchill
Be sure to respond by ignoring my questions, and accusing me of something.
hi friends.
well its seems my wife has hit a standstill with the dubs.
some of you may know my situation, but i guess its all relative anyway.
to think your question is from apostates
How could a question be apostate? Can a question join and then renounce a religion/cult? A question in itself is only a request for information.
How could "the truth" ever fear and justify refusing such a request?
hi friends.
well its seems my wife has hit a standstill with the dubs.
some of you may know my situation, but i guess its all relative anyway.
I've never seen an elder refuse to answer any honest request, in fact they are most happy to.
I have. 3 weeks ago I asked the an elder and a pioneer to answer for me how the JW explains the claim that Christ returned in 1914 with Matthew 23:26. And if it is true that they claimed He returned in 1874.
Matthew 24:23-26
23
"Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU. 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe itI asked how the JW explains Luke 21:8 in light of the claims that the "due time had approached" in 1914, 1925, and 1975. I guess you could go for the old stand-by, "the light will get brighter". BUt the problem is that is for the righteous. Jesus was talking about false prophets!!!
Luke 21:8
8 He said: "Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them.
The funny thing is they never got back to me on it. They just acted like I never asked.
british xenophobes' guide to the usa
recent intelligence from spanish agent "columbus" has indicated that the hoped-for express sailing route between britain and the tea plantations of ceylon and india is blocked by a large land mass going under the name "the united states of america.
" the following advisory for european travellers was originally compiled by the british secret service, but the recent glasnost in eastern europe has made accessible far more comprehensive and accurate archives from the russian committee for state security.
Any Southern chef asked if he serves vegetarian food is likely to produce a 3-pound steak on the grounds that the cow never ate meat in its life.
I think this was my favorite line... sorry, favourite.
CYP
man, i had to read at the book study tonight (which is still at my house btw).. this was the first of the real "meat" of the daniel book (spam more like it, actually).. anyways, for those of you that don't know i am trying to get up the nerve to explain to my wife what i have been learning.
i found tonight was a good night to make some comments in a non-threatening "book study" environment that she (hopefully) will remember.. this weeks book study lesson is posted here, by the way:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/93670/1.ashx.
All the Watchtower doctrines? Are you sure you would want that?
NTSA
Ok, it undermines THE only doctrine that matters;
1. that Jesus selected the JW in 1919 to be His visible organization.
2. See if Jerusalem wasn't sacked in 607, but rather 587 as everyone in the world except the JW beleive, then that means the chronology has the wrong starting point.
3. Which means Jesus returned in 1935 (I am not saying that Jesus returned anytime because in Matthew 24:23-26 Jesus was very clear in stating that we are not to believe anyone who says He has returned.... they are false prophets... and the light only grows brighter for the righteous, not false prophets ... for instance if I were to say Jesus returned in 1879, no reason for me picking that date, I just made it up, I mean it's not like this was being taught in 1919 when Jesus was making his examination or anything...
.....but if I were to say that, that would make me a false prophet!!!! No light getting brighter for me!!!)
4. And if Jesus returned in 1935, then the claim that Jesus selected them in 1919 is bogus
5. If that claim is bogus, then the JW aren't God's visible organization but instead some guys making a blasphemous claim, and all their other exegisis is reduced from the word of God's visible organization (to oppose it is to oppose God), to the same level as any other human. Which is mere commentary.
In other words there would be no special gaurantee that all your most deeply held and cherished beliefs are any more valid then any other argument from any other group of people who have read the bible alot.
Scary thought huh?
"Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth. Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if nothing had happened." -Winston Churchill
The important thing is you only want to serve Jehovah. See, you can't serve two masters.
You will come to love the one and hate the other. If your beloved organization ever contradicts Jehovah, which is inevitable since humans are imperfect and Jehovah is perfect, you would have to have the courage to recognize it, and choose Jehovah. Not an easy task considering everyone you ever knew won't talk to you again.
But that is ok. The important thing is that you only want to serve Jehovah... right?
Coming soon.... "We don't teach doctrine, we just teach what the Bible says, it is just what the Bible teaches!!!"
followed by that great old classic "But where else could we go, nobody else is teaching the Bible the right way"
i can';t get through to any of my friends at liverpool street including my ex.
am really worried!
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Can you give me one good reason why it won't happen to Islam as it has happened to Christianity?
That is an excellent question, and really the fundamental one. I think we can all agree that much of the Islamic world has a lot of growing up to do. I am sure that comment will offend a few, let me explain. My evidence is that all those choosing to introduce parity in between the crimes of Islam and Christianity are forced to go back a few hundred years in Christian history. Yeah, you got your nutter Christians now-a-days, but to say the two religions are equally prolific in distributing madness is just pc pap and wishful thinking.
One of the most important developments needed is introduction of the idea of seperation of mosque and state. I think we can all agree on that as well. While I do agree with President Bush that all people are united in that they naturally yearn for freedom, (I am just agreeing with that particular idea not how he is implementing it!!! ) I am not sure I agree that Islam is compatible with freedom. I have heard many say that Islam and Theocratic rule go hand in hand. There is no distinction in Islam between mosque and state. I am not saying that is true. I am only saying that is what I have heard.
I hope that isn't true. I hope that Islam can, and will reform just as Christianity has. Because the alternatives are just to terrible to contemplate. I suppose the best way to keep those alternatives from coming to fruition is to make it clear that reform is the only viable option, and the only one that will be tolerated.
Our kids are going to be dealing with this crap.
There. I went and broke my own admonition. This is supposed to be a time to greive, and a time to stand by our British cousins.
Glad you made it home ok Crumpy.
(Simon won't let me use my signature anymore. I should have asked for a waiver, cuz I think it was really kick-buttocks)
i can';t get through to any of my friends at liverpool street including my ex.
am really worried!
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May guilt haunt your every sleeping moment and horror stick on your retinas every waking moment. May you never achieve another moments peace or contentment.
I love you Crumpy!
CYP
Censer Watchtower esse delendam
slow-steady-deliberate-relentless
