Check_Your_Premises

Joined

• started 151 topics
• posted 1,586 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Check_Your_Premises

• 
  69

  "What will I do with all my suits?"

  by jgnat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there's a very exciting development in our little jw family.

  i've kept the news close to my chest, as i wouldn't want to jinx it.

  it's a great story full of drama, intrigue, a mild sunday school teacher, the internet, and a bunch freaked-out elders.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Any word from "Jack"?
• 
  32

  I need some help/advice :-(

  by rr8483 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear friends,.

  i'm sorry for barging in like this, but i really need some advice.

  i am not jw, but my boyfriend is.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Whether or not he is baptized is irrelevant. If he believes that the jw are GOd's one true religion, he is a jw.

  Now you need to be very careful of something. You are in danger of getting into a very difficult and painful situation. It is extremely common for a person to be raised a witness, they leave, hook up with someone, and then have a child. Having a child is a life changing experience. It causes you to want to be the person you always wanted to be but were to lazy. Now you want to do things right for your child. To someone who was or believes in the witnesses, that means going back to the KH.

  If you have a child with him, he will very likely go back. In that case you can either decide to be a witness or an unbelieving spouse. Neither is very fun. As a witness you become a slave to a publishing company. Your entire life, destiny, and mind are turned over to them. Your jw husband, who will expect complete authority in your home, will try to make this your child's fate regardless of what you decide. As an unbelieving wife, your husband will have another wife, the wt. He will have another life outside his one with you. In that world you will always be inadequate because you will not to submit to God's will. Keeping the house, and your very active sex life will be all the use he has for you. All other needs will be taken care of by the wt.

  Be very careful!!! Your life is in danger of taking a very tragic turn.

  It is possible for him to stop beleiving in the jw as God's organization. He might even swear to you that is the case. The big acheivement is if he has no fear of not being a jw. Unless he is at that point, he is still a jw. If you can't get him to that point, I would not advise continuing any type of relationship with him.

  Please be careful.

  CYP
• 
  11

  Legalism and JW's: Arguing putting faith in grace rather than jw works

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many christians who have had to deal with a jw on any kind of regular basis will come around to discussions on how salvation is accepted.

  now the jw will say that salvation is through faith alone, but then they will insist that we must obey.

  furthermore they have a great deal of faith in their spiritual regimen to keep them on the straight and narrow.. this is how i explained it to one recently.. so often when we are trying to understand god's relationship with man, it is useful to consider the analogy of a father to his child.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  You are really bringing up some great points! I guess you are having a lot of the same conversations. I am starting to want to put them together in a comprehensive form. I really like your comparison of children and slaves!
• 
  27

  JW Husband and Apostate Wife

  by twinflame in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  ah, where to start.

  i have been married for 30 years and was a jw with my husband for 20+.

  we raised 6 children in the borg; none of which, thankfully, stuck with it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Welcome aboard, and congratualtions on taking the blue pill. Great job on raising free children with free minds. What more could a parent hope for!

  I am an unbelieving mate of some accomplishments, although my wife is still in. You will find many friends here, and many who will give you great advice. Our most recent success story is Ithinkisee. He was a former bethelite who spent a year slowly building the groundwork for his wife's exit. Now they are planning their life together in a new location free from jw slavery. There are so many more. So have courage.

  The checklist.... usually a fine ubm named JGnat takes care of this. She will probably add to whatever I forget. I know alot of this is a little late since you left 7 years ago and are an open apostate. I would agree with another poster that you probably have some obligation to try to free your husband's mind. He wants to be free. There is just another personality superimposed on his that says all that other silly stuff.

  1. Never criticize the org. Your job is to ask questions, that lead to thoughts, that allow THEM to question the legitimacy of the org. Eventually you need to ask him questions that will help him to develop a new, non-cult perspective.

  2. All efforts to free his mind must be based in trust. He must trust you. He must have things that he can relate to you with spiritually. Without trust all other efforts are a waste of time. I know you are an open apostate. I know you have been through alot. But you are the bait. He can't pass up an opportunity to save you. By being less hostile, and actually curious, it will open the conversation that you need to have with him.

  3. Get Releasing the Bonds by Steven Hassan. It is a how to get your loved one out of a cult book. It would probably do you some good, since you were in as well. This is the book I and others are using to open our loved ones mind, and deal with all the phobias.

  I sense that you are at the end of your rope with your marriage? I can't tell you what to do there. I hope whatever you do, you won't have any regrets. I personally am not at a point where I could live with myself if I left my wife behind. That is the question that haunts us all I suppose.

  Hope some of that helps. Sorry if it is obvious, or stuff you already knew. Sorry for all you have been through. We are legion!

  CYP
• 
  11

  Legalism and JW's: Arguing putting faith in grace rather than jw works

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many christians who have had to deal with a jw on any kind of regular basis will come around to discussions on how salvation is accepted.

  now the jw will say that salvation is through faith alone, but then they will insist that we must obey.

  furthermore they have a great deal of faith in their spiritual regimen to keep them on the straight and narrow.. this is how i explained it to one recently.. so often when we are trying to understand god's relationship with man, it is useful to consider the analogy of a father to his child.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Well I know you hear the same crap. "There has to be rules!" And of course, "So if there are no rules that means you can just do whatever you want?"

  No! It means God doesn't think he should have to give you rules! Why bother! You will just screw them up any way.
• 
  22

  They are giving my kids notebooks for the special assembly. Why?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now if they were only giving them to my children, i would raise cain, because it is an obvious attempt to imply that they have to provide what i am not.

  it is also an influence ploy, in that by giving them a gift, it obligates them to use the gift.. but they gave them to all the kids and everyone at the book study.

  the sweet part was that i actually showed up.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Well it happened twice. Once at the hall, which was your basic run of the mill notebook given to all the kids, then at the book study. Now the one at the book study was made by the new brother, who was an ms at his old congregation, and is obviously trying to impress the elders of his new cong. He is a real brown noser. He has all this research for all his answers. Everyone else just read the rote answer from the paragraph. They were very well prepared notebooks with schedules, and pictures on the front for each person.

  I have great hopes for this guy to give me some good jwbb (jw behaving badly) moments. All the other folks are just so darn nice!

  I am just wondering if they are giving these out just so they can give them to my kids. They are the only ones I know of that have the option of attending these things. I am sure that is a well known, and uncomfortable fact.

  Are they that weasely?

  CYP
• 
  11

  Legalism and JW's: Arguing putting faith in grace rather than jw works

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many christians who have had to deal with a jw on any kind of regular basis will come around to discussions on how salvation is accepted.

  now the jw will say that salvation is through faith alone, but then they will insist that we must obey.

  furthermore they have a great deal of faith in their spiritual regimen to keep them on the straight and narrow.. this is how i explained it to one recently.. so often when we are trying to understand god's relationship with man, it is useful to consider the analogy of a father to his child.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Thanks MJ,

  The thing is the JW I was talking to doesn't really seem to grasp the two tiered nature of their belief system. The person is fairly new.

  Actually, I think the only difference this particular dub sees is that annointed go to heaven and the other sheep stay here. I am taking advantage of this bit of doctrinal ignorance in our discussions.

  The whole reason I posted this, and have talked about it is because this person just can't seem to get it through their head that salvation doesn't depend on following rules. The law is done away with, but somehow there are these laws that have to be followed.

  So going with my analogy, I would probably say that when a child is young we tell them not to cross the street. Once they mature, and the "law is written in their hearts" it is ok for them to cross the street. They understand that the principle (jw's use this one all the time to explain THEIR rules) is "don't get run over". I don't care if they cross the street thus disobeying my previous rule. I just care that they don't get run over!!!

  Same deal. God doesn't care if we celebrate Christmas! He just doesn't want us worshipping buhdda or making things in our life more important than our love for him. Which is to say there is no sinful desire in our heart. The heart is the fountainhead of sin. Without a decision (even temporary or subconsiously) first within us to turn away from God, sin will not take place.

  Sorry if I am being Captain Obvious here, but this is a difficult concept that I have been battling lately!
• 
  22

  They are giving my kids notebooks for the special assembly. Why?

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now if they were only giving them to my children, i would raise cain, because it is an obvious attempt to imply that they have to provide what i am not.

  it is also an influence ploy, in that by giving them a gift, it obligates them to use the gift.. but they gave them to all the kids and everyone at the book study.

  the sweet part was that i actually showed up.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Now if they were only giving them to my children, I would raise cain, because it is an obvious attempt to imply that they have to provide what I am not. It is also an influence ploy, in that by giving them a gift, it obligates them to use the gift.

  But they gave them to all the kids and everyone at the book study. The sweet part was that I actually showed up. I never do. So mr fancy pants didn't have a notebook for me. Like I cared. He said it was because he didn't think I would be there. The thing is, he had one for my son who is never there either.

  So are they giving these out JUST so they can give them to my kids since I am a lousy unbelieving mate? Or is this whole giving out notebooks jw standard operating procedure.
• 
  69

  "What will I do with all my suits?"

  by jgnat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there's a very exciting development in our little jw family.

  i've kept the news close to my chest, as i wouldn't want to jinx it.

  it's a great story full of drama, intrigue, a mild sunday school teacher, the internet, and a bunch freaked-out elders.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Jgnat,

  That is great news. I have been away from the boards, so I am sorry I didn't see your post sooner!

  I am so happy. For him to say this is remarkeable. The suits. Well he obviously likes wearing them. Anything that will allow him to do so is definitely a thing to do. SOunds like you got a lot of good suggestions already. What kind of work does he do if you don't mind me asking? Would he consider a career change? Maybe something that would let him wear his suits?

  So the damage has been done. JWBB (jw behaving badly) come through again!!! It is just inevitable that if you have a bunch of people that are so sure of themselves, it is going to cause some of lesser character to display their certainty with pride and ugliness. I am still looking for some marks at our hall. I figure if I get someone to treat me like a jerk it will really come in handy. Bottom line, he is looking for the door. Have you considered any of the deprogramming videos on freeminds? I think it is a lot to expect some folks to read books like COC. I think a one hour dvd could be just as devastating. It is simply a more efficient way to present info. Don't give it to him obviously. Let him see the box, and he will pop it in. If he is looking for the door, he will be looking to justify it.

  Sorry I don't have any suggestions. I haven't gotten any of those videos yet.

  Prayers for you and your poor abused husband.

  CYP

  P.S. Hey Jack... the days of you guys coming in with all the angles worked out and slicing/dicing us unbelieving mates are over. You used to know how to head us off at every turn, you used to know every move we would make before we even knew what hit us. You would swoop in and steal our families leaving us with the choice of subjugating our minds to the "Bible trained" whims of imperfect men, or being alienated from our loved ones.

  The free exchange of information (something you people don't allow because the wt can't survive it) has enabled us to slice and dice you. We know your every move. We know how to head you off. It's a new day Jack. I hope someday you to will realize that perfect gift of salvation doesn't require you to join "the right group" of imperfect people. It also doesn't require that you spy and treat adults like children. Take care Jack.
• 
  11

  Legalism and JW's: Arguing putting faith in grace rather than jw works

  by Check_Your_Premises in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many christians who have had to deal with a jw on any kind of regular basis will come around to discussions on how salvation is accepted.

  now the jw will say that salvation is through faith alone, but then they will insist that we must obey.

  furthermore they have a great deal of faith in their spiritual regimen to keep them on the straight and narrow.. this is how i explained it to one recently.. so often when we are trying to understand god's relationship with man, it is useful to consider the analogy of a father to his child.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Many Christians who have had to deal with a jw on any kind of regular basis will come around to discussions on how salvation is accepted. Now the jw will say that salvation is through faith alone, but then they will insist that we must obey. Furthermore they have a great deal of faith in their spiritual regimen to keep them on the straight and narrow.

  This is how I explained it to one recently.

  So often when we are trying to understand God's relationship with man, it is useful to consider the analogy of a father to his child. Initially man was like an infant. He was completely unequipped in his experience and understanding to deal with the ability to know good and evil. Just like an infant that does not even know not to crawl off the bed, early man had no concept of the ramifications of sin. God had to deal directly with man to correct his behavior.

  Later as man gained more knowledge and understanding, God gave basic rules. Do not kill. Do not steal. Do not worship other gods. Also once our children are able to understand our words, we give them simple commands. Don't play in the street. Don't run with scissors. Don't hit your sister.

  Eventually though, as a parent you hope that while following the rules, a basic understanding of the rationale behind the rules will set in. Eventually you expect your child to grow to the point where they really don't need your rules to function. They have the maturity and judgement to make the right decisions. Now they will make mistakes, and you will have to correct them from time to time, but when it comes time to leave home, they have the sense they need to make it.

  Now I also knew someone who was very strict with their child. THey gave him many rules. He followed them all. But he never grew in understanding of what the rules meant. When he left home and the rules of his parents he simply could not function at all.

  That is what I think God is expecting from us in having the law now written in our hearts. We are no longer under the law of God's (or the jw's) basic rules. He is expecting us to show some doggone maturity and to know right and wrong without having a list of rules to follow. There are two basic rules. Any question beyond that is a matter of what is in your heart. If you are turning away from sin in your desires YOU ARE NOT SINNING!!!

  My 2 cents. The jw didn't have much to say to all that.

  THoughts?