Posts by Check_Your

Yeah, that is the trick. Christianity (whether it be "true" or "Mere") requires faith for salvation. The jw requires faith in their group, "Mere Christianity" requires faith in Christ.

Does faith in Christ require a belief in a factual person and set of events? Yeah, probably. What if evidence is shown that minimizes the likelihood of even his existence? Or what if another explanation for these events is given that seems more simple (Occam's Razor), such as the posts Terry has put up lately explaining the cultural background of the Greco-Romanized Jewish milieu that Christ is said to have inhabited. Nevertheless, these various bits of data aren't the sole source of my faith. I don't believe in the man Jesus because there is some quote from Josephus (that is arguably inauthentic).

Something I am beginning to realize is that our faith should start from "where we can get on our own steam", as C.S. Lewis put it. If we just start off with the Bible, aren't we just adopting the religion of our family/culture? Of course I am a CHristian! I grew up in America!!!

So my starting point is an observation of the world I live in and humanity in general. We all have an innate understanding and expectation of the fundamental law; do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Universal Laws require a Unverisal law giver, a Designer, a Mind. All mankind, for whatever reason, are detached from that Law Giver, that Creator. We are at conflict with that law. I can see this without cracking a Bible. To me the question of whether the Garden of Eden is myth or fact is irrelevant. Further, I can see the futility of mankind trying to acheive this unity with our Creator by following a list of rules. We are flawed not in our actions, but in the things that we love, our motivations. We don't need a teacher, but rather someone who can change us, make us new. And that is something that can only be given freely by the grace of our Creator. (This is the short, non-comprehensive version of course, and not the point of my post. So athiests, please respect the scope of this post. Pick at the above paragraph on another thread if you must.)

The above has the ring of truth to me; as something that I just always knew. It is what I love about God, and why I seek him out. That is why I am a Christian. It is an ethos that I love and the reason I have faith. Not because of facts, events, logical constructs, or some rock solid set of apologetics.

So were I to be shown completely irrefutable evidence that Christ never existed, I would have to adopt that reality into my understanding of the person Jesus. But my understanding of God would remain intact. Were I given a better understanding of a God with a superior ethos, I would adopt that reality into my understanding as well.

I guess that is the difference. A jw sees loss of faith in the org, as a step down. Were I to reject my concept of God, my Christianity, my faith in Christ, it would only be for something better.

CYP

52

UBMs - why do we love JWs??

by Super_Becka in

i think there's been a thread on this before, but i figured i'd ask again.. for all of the ubms out there, why is it that we love witnesses??

what is it about them that we find so attractive??

why are we putting ourselves through this mess when we know full-well that there are lots of non-jws out there who would be better for us??.

Check_Your_Premises

But to ask a well-phrased question....
Super_Becka, what would be the deal-breaker in your relationship that would convince you to walk away?

Notice it was ignored?

52

UBMs - why do we love JWs??

by Super_Becka in

i think there's been a thread on this before, but i figured i'd ask again.. for all of the ubms out there, why is it that we love witnesses??

what is it about them that we find so attractive??

why are we putting ourselves through this mess when we know full-well that there are lots of non-jws out there who would be better for us??.

Check_Your_Premises

It's like i can't get enough of him!!

Doesn't sound healthy to me. Needing people is a bad idea. People will always let you down. Be happy by yourself, and only then are you ready to actually love someone.

Loving someone isn't needing them around to be emotionally stable. Love is seeking/wanting what is in a person's best interests. That even means you might decide not to be around them if that is what is best for them.

I am sure you have no desire to read the above... neither did I when I learned all the awful lessons that gave me the above insights.

A great secret in life is to learn from the mistakes of other's. A bad idea is to look at other's who went through the same situation and figure you are somehow different.

But don't worry about it. It is just you who will bear the consequences. It is not like your kids will have to deal with all the pain, risk, and turmoil of being raised in a cult.

Trust me. There is nothing worse than looking at your kids and knowing you screwed them over.

CYP

48

Letter to Ritchie's Mom

by jgnat in

a young man is on the verge of saying goodbye to his mother.

he's forced in to this position due by a rigid organization that punishes strength, intelligence, and individuality.

i dedicate this thread to all good thoughts about richie rich.

Check_Your_Premises

Mrs Richie's Mom,

First off I want to thank you for raising such a great kid. I am 34, and everytime I have talked with your son I have always been amazed by him. Much past my 20th birthday, I don't think I ever met a 17 year old I wanted to spend any time around. Here I am 14 years later, and I just get the biggest kick out of your son. He is without a doubt the funniest, nicest, wisest, and most decent 17 year old I have ever met.

I understand he is taking a different path from the one you chose for him. As a parent I understand how painful that can be. The great, painful realization of parenting is that you realize you only have so much control over them. Eventually, they are going to do what they want to do, and become who they want to be. All we can do is watch and hold our breath. I wouldn't worry about your son to much. He just has to much going for him. Whatever the truth is, he has the intelligence and honesty to get as close to it as anybody. If he ends up in a different place then you, it would probably make a lot of sense to try to understand why. I sure hope I do as good of a job raising my kids.

The other thing I know from speaking to him, is that he loves his momma very much. And he always will. My mother told me that "the only woman that ever really loves you is your momma."

CYP

2

The Leopard and the Old Poodle....

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

a wealthy old lady decides to go on a photo safari in africa, taking her faithful aged poodle named cuddles, along for the company.

one day the poodle starts chasing butterflies and before long, cuddles discovers that he's lost.

wandering about, he notices a leopard heading rapidly in his direction with the intention of having lunch..

Check_Your_Premises

Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience!

I realized this when I was younger. I noticed at the bar how the old guys seemed not have as much trouble as I thought they would taking out a young guy.

CYP

21

Certainty, truth, and the JW's

by Check_Your_Premises in

pardon me while i think out loud.

this is kind of half baked.

to know truth is perhaps the most illusive and yet most important things.

Check_Your_Premises

As for the real question you're asking. My head is hurting and its friday so I'm gonna pass for now

Ok, it is Monday. I am sure you are looking for some heavy thinking and work to do!!! How about now?

45

DATING 101: Dating Interacially and my opposite: Will it Work Out?

by stillAwitness in

so me and the guy i've been dating finally became offical since last night and its the first time in almost a year since i have been in a relationship.

and for once, i think i may have a winner.

but he is white...and 32...and plays the african drums..and teaches some weird dance in a school for kids having to do with cuban tribal dances..or something or other.

Check_Your_Premises

as long as you two can communicate your needs,

Yeah, along with your values being compatible in regards to children and money... make sure you communicate well!!! Communication is the basis for all our relationships. If we have problems communicating, we have those same problems with everyone. See what kind of problems he has with others. If they are caused by his communication style, expect the same problems.

Seek info and give info freely and equally. Fight fair... to solve problems, not to hurt. If something pisses you off, let 'em know quick, so it doesn't build.

Most of all... make sure he loves his momma. No wait... REALLY MOST OF ALL, DON'T LET HIM BECOME A JW!!!

The interacial stuff is secondary.

CYP

45

DATING 101: Dating Interacially and my opposite: Will it Work Out?

by stillAwitness in

so me and the guy i've been dating finally became offical since last night and its the first time in almost a year since i have been in a relationship.

and for once, i think i may have a winner.

but he is white...and 32...and plays the african drums..and teaches some weird dance in a school for kids having to do with cuban tribal dances..or something or other.

Check_Your_Premises

I can see from both your expiriences that there can be clear distinctions between black and white period.

Some good black/white comparisons have been done recently by Dave Chappelle, on the Chappelle show. There hadn't been any good black/white parity comedy for a long time until he came around.

Some funny noteables were a "Trading Spouses" episode. Dave comes in and the kid is listening to rap. He tells Dave he is from the streets. Next scene is Dave dropping the kid off in "da hood". The bedroom scenes were classic. A few other hysterical observations.

I think Jungle Fever probably did deal with some of the issues that could come up, although it is dated. Look Whose Coming to Dinner probably didn't have any good cultural insights. However the scene where Bernie Mac badgers Ashton Kutcher into telling black jokes has to be a cultural milestone. The laughed at alot of them, but then he went just a little to far. The cultural divide reared up with a vengeance. We've come so far, but so far to go.

Nobodies gramma is going to like an interacial bf/gf. Old people are just racist. They come from a different time.

45

DATING 101: Dating Interacially and my opposite: Will it Work Out?

by stillAwitness in

so me and the guy i've been dating finally became offical since last night and its the first time in almost a year since i have been in a relationship.

and for once, i think i may have a winner.

but he is white...and 32...and plays the african drums..and teaches some weird dance in a school for kids having to do with cuban tribal dances..or something or other.

Check_Your_Premises

Stilla,

Ok, mostly answering cuz you are with a cracka, and I like my women like my coffee.... hot and dark!

With that said, I can say that the cultural differences in general aren't so bad. It depends on how much you are a product of your culture. I find that many black jw's aren't THAT black. But no matter how cosmopolitan we are, we still are influenced in significant, if subtle ways by our culture.

Unfortunately I haven't dated a sister, so I don't have any good ideas for you on traversing the jungle fever thing.

Most of the heat comes from other people. You probably won't get much hassle from his family, if he is as big of a hippy-dippy as you describe. Some white people will likely not like it. But probably at least not to your face. Most polite white folks are scared to death of seeming racist. (of course I have never had to deal with white folks as a black guy, so I could be way off base here) He will probably get more heat from the brothers. I could see a few of them wanting to bust his balls and cock-block a bit when they see you two strolling down the street.

The a-number one thing that determines a successful relationship in my mind is having the same values; having the same ideas about right and wrong. The areas where this is critical and most problematic are in money and parenting. Compare his financial habits to yours. Compare his upbringing to yours. These should be at least compatible. These things sound mundane, but become incredibly important and divisive in the midst of a marriage and family.

The interacial stuff doesn't seem to get in the way to much I have found, if you both have a good sense of humor about it. My wife can do a complete theatrical reading of Coal Miner's Daughter, and bought me SlingBlade on dvd. I refer myself to the foreman of the drywall or landscaping crew. Sometimes I refer to our home as the Alamo. We all have a good laugh about it.

CYP

Check_Your_Premises

Posts by Check_Your_Premises