Posts by bennyk

24

What does Josephus say about 586/87 BCE?

by ithinkisee in

.

i know he refers to the 70 years originally in one place and later changes it to 50 years later in his life when he got more info - but other than that, is there any other relevant stuff from his works regarding nebuchadnezzar laying the smack-down on the temple in 586/87?.

ithinkisee

bennyk

I really don't see Antiq. 11:1:1 as requiring the complete depopulation of Judea, only an exile of (some --not all) Jews. That passage also refers to their repariation ("he would restore them again to the land of their fathers"), but we know that very many of the Jews remained in the 'diaspora', albeit voluntarily (e.g. Daniel). The prophecies as recorded in Jeremiah do not even require deportation and exile at all: pls cf. Jer. 27:7,8,11-13,17; 38:17,18.

While these discussions are interesting, they really don't lead anywhere. The WTS' chronology is wrong not only because Jerusalem fell in 587 B.C.E., but more importantly, because Daniel chap. 4 has nothing to do with foreshadowing the Messianic Kingdom. See also Luke 21:8.

Have a great weekend!!!

24

What does Josephus say about 586/87 BCE?

by ithinkisee in

.

i know he refers to the 70 years originally in one place and later changes it to 50 years later in his life when he got more info - but other than that, is there any other relevant stuff from his works regarding nebuchadnezzar laying the smack-down on the temple in 586/87?.

ithinkisee

bennyk

I do not claim that Josephus is conveying the idea that the subduing of those nations and the desolation of the temple are to be understood as occurring at the same time (or even as immediately sequential). Rather, that passage from Apion 1:19 simply indicates that the nations were subdued and Jerusalem's temple set on fire by "that means", i.e. by the "great army" of Babylon. However, it should be noted that the "servitude" is stated to have begun BEFORE Nebuchadnezzar took the throne.

The SEVENTY years of SERVITUDE (Antiquities 11:1:1) run from 609 B.C.E. (following the Assyrian Empire's crushing defeat at Haran and the subsequent vassalage of Judea to Babylon) until 539 B.C.E. (when Babylon itself was defeated). The FIFTY years of DESOLATION for the Temple (Apion 1:21) run from 587 B.C.E. (when Jerusalem and its Temple were destroyed) until 537 B.C.E. (when the foundations of the Temple were laid [second year of Cyrus]). The several deportations occurred at various times during the seventy years, but the SERVITUDE of Judea as a nation need not begin with any of the deportations as recorded in the Bible.

24

What does Josephus say about 586/87 BCE?

by ithinkisee in

.

i know he refers to the 70 years originally in one place and later changes it to 50 years later in his life when he got more info - but other than that, is there any other relevant stuff from his works regarding nebuchadnezzar laying the smack-down on the temple in 586/87?.

ithinkisee

bennyk

"Against Apion" 1:19 indicates that Nabolassar sent his son Nubuchadnezzar "against Egypt and against our land [Judea], with a great army, upon his [Nebolassar's] being informed that they had revolted from him; and how, by that means, he subdued them all, and set our temple that was at Jerusalem on fire &c"

Clearly Nebolassar's sending of his son Nebuchadnezzar preceded his own death, which death occurred before Nebuchadnezzar's rule as king, and consequently many years before Nebuchadnezzar's nineteenth year. The revolt was against the "servitude", under which yoke the Jews already were suffering as vassals of Babylon.

The accounts in Josephus indicate that the temple (and Jerusalem) lay desolate FIFTY years (Apion 1:21), which fifty years were a part of the SEVENTY years of SERVITUDE (Antiquities 11:1:1). Apion 1:19 does NOT contradict this; it confirms that the fifty year's period of desolation occurred "during the interval of seventy years". The quotes you submitted do not indicate seventy years of "desolation", nor of "deportation" or 'captivity' (whether of a specific group, or viewed in the aggregate), but of servitude.

32

Anything absurd/stupid/silly said in your congregation?

by badboy in

jw
friends

.

in one thread it said something said that dodos were wiped out in noah's flood.. did anyone say something absurd,stupid or just plain silly?.

bennyk

undercover: and we haven't, have we?!?!

(so far, so good)

32

Anything absurd/stupid/silly said in your congregation?

by badboy in

jw
friends

.

in one thread it said something said that dodos were wiped out in noah's flood.. did anyone say something absurd,stupid or just plain silly?.

bennyk

"The elders are your 'bridge' to Jehovah" (!) (and it was said in all seriousness).

24

What does Josephus say about 586/87 BCE?

by ithinkisee in

.

i know he refers to the 70 years originally in one place and later changes it to 50 years later in his life when he got more info - but other than that, is there any other relevant stuff from his works regarding nebuchadnezzar laying the smack-down on the temple in 586/87?.

ithinkisee

bennyk

Thanks for posting the quotes, JCanon.

The excerpt from "Antiquities" indicates SEVENTY years of SERVITUDE.

The two excerpts from "Against Apion" indicate that the FIFTY years DESOLATION of the temple (and Jerusalem, one hastens to add) occured DURING the those same seventy years of servitude. ("during the interval of seventy years" -- NOT: FOR an interval of seventy years.) The seventy years of servitude began before the desolation of Jerusalem. Cf. Jer. 27:1,6-8 [note past perfect tense in vs 6] and 28:1,2,11 [where the servitude is already under way].

[Incidentally, the 1971 Large-print NWT has the running heading "seventy years of servitude" rather than "captivity" (this from memory - the 1971 book is not before me).]

12

Could someone post the May 15 1984 Watchtower articles ???

by run dont walk in

my elder brother seems to think the watchtower never said that, these articles are about the 1914 generation that will not pass away, i beleive they are study articles also, so if someone could post the articles in their entirety form the magazine or direct me to a website that has them, would be appreciated.

i'm pretty sure it was may 15, has the logo on the front cover, 1914 thegeneration that will not pass away, might be may 1, 1984, not sure.. thanks.

run

bennyk

From the "Reasoning" book: "that some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world" (p. 200).

38

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 7-17-05 WT Study (Complete/Sacred Service

by blondie in

i wonder what i am doing wrong posting this?

i will try later..

bennyk

Hmmm. My printed Index of Watchtower Publications 1930-1985, copywrite 1986, has NO citation for the two 1976 articles; only a listing for w1980 and ad1431. A few months back, I had to run thru the 1976 WT issue by issue to find them; why were they deleted from the original Index? (Old light!) And (more puzzling): why are they now again to be found in the Index?

13

Scriptures about apostates/Christendom that ACTUALLY apply to the WT?

by ithinkisee in

jw
friends

i personally like:.

(matthew 23:13-15 nwt) 13 woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites!

because you shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men; for you yourselves do not go in, neither do you permit those on their way in to go in.

bennyk

Second Thessalonians 2:3,4 (re: "man of lawlessness").

38

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 7-17-05 WT Study (Complete/Sacred Service

by blondie in

i wonder what i am doing wrong posting this?

i will try later..

bennyk

Thanks, blondie!!!

re: paragraph 13 (and everywhere else, too): Matt. 6:1 springs to mind. Is it possible that the Holy Spirit could appoint the clergy without a written report of FS hours? The Holy Spirit anoints without the approval of ten Christ-denying imposters in Brooklyn....

re: paragraphs 10 & 16: although the WTS admits that no human can accurately judge another's motives, or even know them, it does appear that they will not let that deter them.

Nice to see Ray's work re: sacred service once again; the WT index for 1930-1985 seems to be missing the citation for those articles. An oversight, no doubt....

Love, ben