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is it possible that people still speak in tongues, from god's spirit?
the book of acts does not state that it would come to an end.. not everything in the spirit word is of holy origin, but i detest the idea that because it isn't in a kingdom hall it must be satan.. .
Acts may say little about it, but 1 Cor. 13:8 does state that the gift of tongues will cease.
However, it does not say when. (Some of the writings of the Ante-Nicean Fathers suggest that the gifts of prophesying and tongues had already ceased to be in their day; perhaps someone else would be in a position to give citations thereof. (?))
i usually don't read wt or awakes, but i stumbled on an article that shows the borg's two-facedness.. the article talks about a group of mennonites that had doubts about their religion and wanted to study with the jws.
after the first paragraph, i realized that i had felt exactly like those poor mennonites when i decided to study the jw's history.
let me explain... i have scanned some parts of the articles: .
Jesus expressed himself rather strongly regarding hypocrites.... Maybe I was a Mennonite all those years; after all, I was expelled for studying the Bible(!)
my 79 year old mom that has every ailment known to man was going to the bookstudy this afternoon because she felt "guilty" for not going the last couple of meetings due to illness.
i told her it was 95 degrees outside and asked her not to go since she has difficulty breathing.
she decided to do it anyway.
At some point in time, I began to feel guilty because I'd not yet left the apostate WTS. I got over it after I finally left.
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i know he refers to the 70 years originally in one place and later changes it to 50 years later in his life when he got more info - but other than that, is there any other relevant stuff from his works regarding nebuchadnezzar laying the smack-down on the temple in 586/87?.
ithinkisee
I really don't see Antiq. 11:1:1 as requiring the complete depopulation of Judea, only an exile of (some --not all) Jews. That passage also refers to their repariation ("he would restore them again to the land of their fathers"), but we know that very many of the Jews remained in the 'diaspora', albeit voluntarily (e.g. Daniel). The prophecies as recorded in Jeremiah do not even require deportation and exile at all: pls cf. Jer. 27:7,8,11-13,17; 38:17,18.
While these discussions are interesting, they really don't lead anywhere. The WTS' chronology is wrong not only because Jerusalem fell in 587 B.C.E., but more importantly, because Daniel chap. 4 has nothing to do with foreshadowing the Messianic Kingdom. See also Luke 21:8.
Have a great weekend!!!
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i know he refers to the 70 years originally in one place and later changes it to 50 years later in his life when he got more info - but other than that, is there any other relevant stuff from his works regarding nebuchadnezzar laying the smack-down on the temple in 586/87?.
ithinkisee
I do not claim that Josephus is conveying the idea that the subduing of those nations and the desolation of the temple are to be understood as occurring at the same time (or even as immediately sequential). Rather, that passage from Apion 1:19 simply indicates that the nations were subdued and Jerusalem's temple set on fire by "that means", i.e. by the "great army" of Babylon. However, it should be noted that the "servitude" is stated to have begun BEFORE Nebuchadnezzar took the throne.
The SEVENTY years of SERVITUDE (Antiquities 11:1:1) run from 609 B.C.E. (following the Assyrian Empire's crushing defeat at Haran and the subsequent vassalage of Judea to Babylon) until 539 B.C.E. (when Babylon itself was defeated). The FIFTY years of DESOLATION for the Temple (Apion 1:21) run from 587 B.C.E. (when Jerusalem and its Temple were destroyed) until 537 B.C.E. (when the foundations of the Temple were laid [second year of Cyrus]). The several deportations occurred at various times during the seventy years, but the SERVITUDE of Judea as a nation need not begin with any of the deportations as recorded in the Bible.
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i know he refers to the 70 years originally in one place and later changes it to 50 years later in his life when he got more info - but other than that, is there any other relevant stuff from his works regarding nebuchadnezzar laying the smack-down on the temple in 586/87?.
ithinkisee
"Against Apion" 1:19 indicates that Nabolassar sent his son Nubuchadnezzar "against Egypt and against our land [Judea], with a great army, upon his [Nebolassar's] being informed that they had revolted from him; and how, by that means, he subdued them all, and set our temple that was at Jerusalem on fire &c"
Clearly Nebolassar's sending of his son Nebuchadnezzar preceded his own death, which death occurred before Nebuchadnezzar's rule as king, and consequently many years before Nebuchadnezzar's nineteenth year. The revolt was against the "servitude", under which yoke the Jews already were suffering as vassals of Babylon.
The accounts in Josephus indicate that the temple (and Jerusalem) lay desolate FIFTY years (Apion 1:21), which fifty years were a part of the SEVENTY years of SERVITUDE (Antiquities 11:1:1). Apion 1:19 does NOT contradict this; it confirms that the fifty year's period of desolation occurred "during the interval of seventy years". The quotes you submitted do not indicate seventy years of "desolation", nor of "deportation" or 'captivity' (whether of a specific group, or viewed in the aggregate), but of servitude.
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in one thread it said something said that dodos were wiped out in noah's flood.. did anyone say something absurd,stupid or just plain silly?.
undercover: and we haven't, have we?!?!
(so far, so good)
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in one thread it said something said that dodos were wiped out in noah's flood.. did anyone say something absurd,stupid or just plain silly?.
"The elders are your 'bridge' to Jehovah" (!) (and it was said in all seriousness).
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i know he refers to the 70 years originally in one place and later changes it to 50 years later in his life when he got more info - but other than that, is there any other relevant stuff from his works regarding nebuchadnezzar laying the smack-down on the temple in 586/87?.
ithinkisee
Thanks for posting the quotes, JCanon.
The excerpt from "Antiquities" indicates SEVENTY years of SERVITUDE.
The two excerpts from "Against Apion" indicate that the FIFTY years DESOLATION of the temple (and Jerusalem, one hastens to add) occured DURING the those same seventy years of servitude. ("during the interval of seventy years" -- NOT: FOR an interval of seventy years.) The seventy years of servitude began before the desolation of Jerusalem. Cf. Jer. 27:1,6-8 [note past perfect tense in vs 6] and 28:1,2,11 [where the servitude is already under way].
[Incidentally, the 1971 Large-print NWT has the running heading "seventy years of servitude" rather than "captivity" (this from memory - the 1971 book is not before me).]
my elder brother seems to think the watchtower never said that, these articles are about the 1914 generation that will not pass away, i beleive they are study articles also, so if someone could post the articles in their entirety form the magazine or direct me to a website that has them, would be appreciated.
i'm pretty sure it was may 15, has the logo on the front cover, 1914 thegeneration that will not pass away, might be may 1, 1984, not sure.. thanks.
run
From the "Reasoning" book: "that some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world" (p. 200).
