If memory serves, in one of the the Oct. 1966 Awake! 's, it was clearly stated that the millenium would have to begin no later than 1975. So the big white bird is correct (sorta). The statements of the forementioned Awake! implied that Armageddon could begin earlier than 1975. Of course, the Society was proven a False Prophet by the non-events preceeding 1976.
bennyk
JoinedPosts by bennyk
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170
Let's just get something straight about 1975.
by WTFBBQPWNT innobody ever said that the end was coming in 1975.. all the hype about this date that has continued all the way down through today came from a talk in the early 70's by fred franz.
in this talk, franz pointed out the significance of the 7 creative days and how they correspond with 1,000-year time intervals.. he then said, "could the end come in 1975?
there's so much wrong with jehovah's witnesses from their rigid legalism to their faux love, but let's call a spade a spade about the 1975 thing..
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Confess and you won't be DF'd!!! Puke alert!!!!
by Gill inwell, in nearly forty years of being a dub, i've read some bs but some of it really takes the biscuit.. take for example the watchtower of november 15th 2006!.
always accept jehovah's dicipline.
para 3 .
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bennyk
If every last one of these individuals who have been DF'd were NOT truly repentant, why have we seen so many of them work for re-instatement IMMEDIATELY? Shouldn't this serve as proof to the "rank and file" that these Elders are not "Spirit-directed" and that these decisions are not coming from God?
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Statistical effect of disassociating the inactive
by AuldSoul init has been tossed around several times on the forum, and invariably someone pipes up that the wts will never do it because of the adverse effects on the numbers.
there is a glaring flaw in that reasoning.. the inactive are never counted as publishers.
the numbers that are reported are of active, reporting publishers.. if they disassociate every single person who is inactive and refuses to reactivate themselves, the numbers will not be negatively affected at all.
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bennyk
Recycled old post (16. June 2005):
The congregations are filled with the weak and inactive. It may be that the GB fears that the level of apathy is reaching critical mass. JW culture is changing and it is becoming socially acceptable to ignore the shrill and strident calls for conformity and obedience. The Org may be willing to do a bit of pruning to preserve the hard-core elements from the erosive effects of the inactive and the faders. Following the debacle of 1975, the WTS lost many adherents, but these were soon replaced by new and significant growth. They may risk such a move (DA-ing faders) with a view to long-term potential for increase.
On the other hand, many less-than-zealous Witnesses remain only to preserve relationships with family and friends, or because they have no support network outside the Organisation. The GB must know this. If the WTS "offs" too many, they will inadvertently create such a support network. Watch the dam burst and the reservoir empty...
I also agree with the posters who suggest that such action on the part of the WTS will cause numerous and sundry faders to cease the silence and become active (and effective) opposers.
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If U Don't Go To All The Meetings & Conventions You're Not Jehovah's Friend
by minimus inso said an elder's wife who is considered the most respected sister in the congregation.
she said this at my mom's bookstudy where many elderly attend.
when my mother told me what the elder's wife has said, i said, "well, it's better to know now where you stand with jehovah than later, i guess".
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bennyk
The Elders tried Hebrews 10:25 on me one of the last times we met. I said: "No -- the context also indicates that we 'consider one another to incite to love and fine works' (vs. 24[!]), and as the Meetings do nothing of the kind, I do not believe verse 25 is referring to the Meetings at the Kingdom Hall..."
The look on their faces was priceless!
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A little hypocrisy "Watchtower style"
by rockhound inabout 2 months ago my jw sister informed me that she had decided to disfellowship my wife and i. she used 1john 2:19 as a scriptural reference, and the sept.15,1981 watchtower article on disfellowshipping to support her charge.
my reply to her was quite lengthly, but i thought some at this site might be able to benefit from this part of my response.. in your letter to( wife) and i, you applyed 1john 2:19 to us and gave as a reference the following watchtower article to show us why you had decided that "i will treat you as a disfellowshipped persons", because "by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of jehovah's witness" we are evidently guilty as paragraph 14 below of "renouncing his standing as a christian".
*** w81 9/15 p. 23 disfellowshiping?how to view it ***.
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bennyk
Dear Rockhound,
Please tell her that 1 John 2:19 was written by an Anointed Christian to Anointed Christians about Anointed Christians who became part of the Antichrist (vs. 18). Unless she is willing to agree both that you are "anointed", and also charge you with being an "Antichrist", the Scripture cannot be justly applied to you...
Remind her of the existence of such Scriptures as Matt. 5:11,12 and Luke 6:22,23.
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"Store up... treasures in heaven." 2007 Circuit Assembly review
by Zico ini had my circuit assembly last weekend.
it was absolutely mind numbing, but i took extensive notes, and i thought i'd share the key points with everyone here for your reading pleasure.. .
i feel i'd made a lot of progress since my convention in june.
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bennyk
Zico wrote:
He pointed to Daniel 12:4. to say, that the very fact we are able to understand these passages is proof that we are in the time of the end. That the end of this system is very close!
Prior to 1927, the Watch Tower Society used that same Scripture to prove that the "Time of the End" began in A.D. 1799!!!
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What did he really find in 1919?
by Fatfreek init's been awhile since i've been out but i seem to recall that jesus returned to his temple in 1919 (or 1918?
) and at that time, the most reliable servant he could entrust with his belongings were those embodied by those under rutherford's watchful eye.
at that time he found them immersed in pyramidology, they believed in the cross, and a list of other teachings they would rather leave buried ("damn that internet!").
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bennyk
In 1919, the Watch Tower Society was teaching:
The Republics would collapse in "anarchy" in 1920.
The Great Company (as the secondary heavenly Class) would ascend to Heaven in 1921 ("close of the Heavenly Way").
Pastor Russell (AKA the "Faithful and Wise Servant") was directing the harvest work from Heaven, having been resurrected at his death on 31. October, 1916.
"Millions now living [in 1919] will never die." (NOTE: Although the booklet was released in 1920, the phrase was first used by Rutherford in a talk given in Spring, 1918. This continued to be the basis of the WTS' message until at least 1925, and the phrase appears prominently on the cover of my 1925 copy of the book "Harp of God".
Natural Israel would soon be returned to favour under the New Covenant [Christians were not considered to be in the New Covenant until several years later.]
The "Ancient Worthies" would be resurrected and assume goverance of the the Earth in 1925, when the Millenium would begin.
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Continually pounding the "Deliverance at Hand" drum...
by bennyk inbrothers!!!
surely we rejoice to know that "deliverance is at hand"!!!
how grateful we are that the faithful and discreet slave has given us such timely warning!!!
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bennyk
Brothers!!! Surely we rejoice to know that "Deliverance is at Hand"!!! How grateful we are that the Faithful and Discreet Slave has given us such timely warning!!! This 2006 District Convention is certainly 'Food at the Proper Time'!!!Other "timely reminders" can be found in earlier Watchtower Magazines:
APRIL 1, 1997. (p.11)
The increasingly difficult conditions on earth are striking evidence that a vast change—indeed, a grand deliverance—is near at hand! For whom? Deliverance is nearing for those who pay attention to the warning signals and who take appropriate action.MAY 1, 1993. (p.26)
While we eagerly await the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, let us show zeal in telling others about God’s loving Kingdom promises. Deliverance is at hand!OCTOBER 1, 1982. (p.28)
This requires a true Christian today to be a person of strong faith in the Almighty God and his promises to the faithful ones. The “deliverance” that is now at hand for persons of such faith is not initially the heavenly glorification of the remnant of the spirit-begotten disciples of Christ and their being taken away from the earthly scene of tribulation, although that is in store for them finally. Rather, the “deliverance” is the putting of a stop to the wars, famines, pestilences, earthquakes and the rabid persecution of the true followers of the reigning King, Jesus Christ, this by the destruction of all enemies of Jehovah’s kingdom by Christ in the “war of the great day of God the Almighty” at what is called Har-Magedon.APRIL 15, 1972. (p.233)
Mankind desperately needs a Liberator from these ruinous demonic heavens. Jehovah God has raised up the needed Deliverer! Jehovah’s marked time for the desired deliverance is at hand!MARCH 15, 1967. (p.168)
True Christians can rejoice because God’s kingdom is near and deliverance from this wicked system of things is at hand.JULY 1, 1959. (p.388)
Despite the woes that have come upon our generation, those who walk in the light from God can be happy. Deliverance is at hand.OCTOBER 15, 1954. (p.624)
Instead of sobbing about the present anguish of nations and praying for its abatement, true Christians see that these turbulent times, indeed such calamities as famines, earthquakes and wars, are fulfillment of Bible prophecy pertaining to the sign of the “last days,” hence they rejoice, as Jesus said they should. (Luke 21:28) They rejoice because they know deliverance to a new world is at hand, that this present evil world must end in that “great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again,” namely, the war of Armageddon.OCTOBER 15, 1949. (p.307)
Deliverance and release have come! Jehovah’s witnesses can testify to that. So on with the song in a continual crescendo, that more and more people may hear the message which tells of the fuller and complete deliverance and release so near at hand for all men of good-will!OCTOBER 1, 1941. (p.303)
These see it is their privilege now to be his witnesses, and to declare his name and his glory in the earth. As his witnesses these faithful ones the great Jehovah God bids to go and tell the glad news to the sorrowing world, and to advise mankind that Jehovah is God, that Christ Jesus is the King of kings, and that the day of deliverance is at hand.JANUARY 1, 1940. (p.10)
For some time many of God’s people have said, and say: "Oh that the salvation of Israel [spiritual Israel] were come out of Zion !" (Ps. 14: 7) Let all such who have hope and who look for salvation now rejoice because the day of deliverance is at hand. By faith we now see the climax of Armageddon and, like David, continue to say: "But I have trusted in thy mercy; my
heart shall rejoice in thy salvation."--Ps. 13:5.DECEMBER 1, 1939. (p.363)
Jehovah is the King of Eternity. He has enthroned Christ Jesus, his King of the Theocratic
Government. Jehovah has appeared in his glory, and the day of deliverance is at hand for all those who flee to the Theocratic Government and give their allegiance and unselfish devotion to the Theocracy.JULY 1, 1936. (p.195,196)
Let Jehovah’s witnesses now be strong in faith and bold in the warfare, knowing for a certainty that the day of deliverance is at hand.SEPTEMBER 15, 1930. (p.281)
God has now given his people an understanding of The Revelation which he gave to Jesus Christ to
show unto his servants. The publication of the two books called Light, giving the explanation of The
Revelation, will greatly anger the Devil and all who have not the spirit of Christ. We may therefore ex-
pect the opposition to the kingdom to quickly become stronger than ever. It will be of short duration, however, because the day of deliverance is at hand. The remnant is now giving honor to Jehovah’s name by faithfully serving him. ‘AUGUST 15, 1926. (p.248)
To this end the Lord is now sending forth a worldwide proclamation that the time of DELIVERANCE
is at hand.JANUARY 1, 1921. (p.13)
Behold, the evidence daily increases that the old world has ended! The kingdom of heaven is here! Let the saints look up and lift up their heads. Let them sing aloud for joy because the day of deliverance is at hand.AUGUST 1, 1918. (p. R6300)
In the clear light of unfolding time-prophecy, we see that we are now living at the very end of the reign of sin and death; that the night of sorrow, pain and tears is almost over; that the glorification of the 1ast members of the Christ body is very soon to be completed. Yes, beloved, "the night is far spent" [about ended] and the glorious day of deliverance and blessing is at hand. Even now the first faint streaks of dawn appear. Then let us cast away every encumberance, everything that would hinder us in the slightest degree in running successfully our glorious race. Let us press on with renewed vigor, looking neither to the right nor to the left, but keeping our eyes "fixed on the glory of the prize," and soon, please God, the victory shall be ours!JUNE 1, 1910. (p. R4627)
Thank God for the great Deliverer; thank God also, for his great day of deliverance, the Millennial
age, now nigh at hand!MAY 1, 1907 (p. R3990)
The Lord assures us, too, that he knows all about these matters and is very sympathetic, far more so than we, and he is both able and willing to grant the deliverance needed at the appropriate time. What confidence it gives us now when we look back and behold that Spiritual Israel has been preserved through all these centuries! that notwithstanding the fiery affliction and adversity that burned against them, they have not been consumed! How it comforts and cheers us now to hear the Lord's voice telling us of the deliverance that is just at hand, and sending by us his messages of love and power to all those who have and are to hear, and who are desirous of having liberty from the power of the world, the flesh and the Adversary.NOVEMBER 1892. (p. R1464)
It is therefore his will rather that we should suffer injustice than that we should spend our strength in fruitless efforts to interrupt the present order of things. And so the kingdom of heaven suffers violence now, but such will not always be the case; for the time of her deliverance is at hand.DECEMBER, 1881. (p. R302)
Let us, dearly beloved, see to it, that we not only bury ourselves and our wills in Christ's, but also keep our bodies under--dying daily until fully delivered into the blessed kingdom --which deliverance we believe to be so very nigh at hand.SEPTEMBER, 1880. (p. R134)
Let us, dearly beloved, live up to our covenant, and not only bury ourselves and our wills in Christ's, but also keep our bodies under--dying daily until fully delivered into the blessed kingdom--which deliverance we believe to be so very nigh at hand..
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The real impact of "apostate" sites
by dozy inin a recent discussion with a couple of district overseers and other heavies , the topic of the internet and apostate sites came up.
i asked what impact these were making , numerically , among jws.
the prevailing view was that , numerically , there was negligible impact.
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bennyk
I agree that most only find the "apostate" websites AFTER they have already come to have serious doubts regarding the Organisation's claims and teachings. That the percentage of those DF'd for "apostasy" may seem unchanged (even if accurate [which I doubt]) does not take into consideration faders, nor those who are already secretly "apostate" (per WTS definition), but who are now caught in a moral lapse and officially ousted for reasons other than "Apostasy". The fact that the numbers of new converts in nations which are heavily internet-connected appear to be nearly uniformly DOWN suggests that the internet is having a significant effect on recruitment, which will bear its fruit over the long run.I think it is also important to consider the effect on the "walk-away believers". In the past, many who left because of the stress of the Witness lifestyle, or the lack of love in the congregations, continued to believe that the Organisation was nevertheless correct. Even those who had been DF'd often felt they had been rightfully expelled (AKA "penance syndrome") and would sometimes encourage other individuals on the fringes of the Organisation to remain with the WTS. "I know it's the right religion, and someday I'll return; I just have to get some things straightened out first..." (I personally know some who engaged in informal witnessing while outside the fold.) No longer. Now once they're outside, they find it as an opportunity to investigate various facets of the religion, and those who do NEVER (TRULY) return. Furthermore, walk-away believers seldom had reason to be very vocal, even about such things as the shunning. Many "apostates" today may not be screaming it from the rooftops, but they are fighting to get their relatives and friends out. And the Internet has given them the ammunition to do so.
Perhaps the Internet may appear to be having only a small impact, but it is achieving results on a number of fronts, and the effects are beginning to "snowball".
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Mennonite article on JW site
by undercover inthe article about the mennonite family becoming jws is on the main page of the wts website.. http://watchtower.org/library/w/2005/9/1/article_01.htm.
in the course of the article they give a little history of the sect but the juicy parts that would interest most of us here in "apostate land" are in the second half of the article.
some snippets:.
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bennyk
The Old Colony Mennonites do shun in the manner that the article describes. Many other affiliations of Mennonites do not, and it also often varies from congregation to congregation within a given affiliation, because Mennonites have congregational church government, rather than an hierarchy over an entire affiliation. So there is nothing inherently suspicious (in and of itself) in the article. (Hats are probably especially tasty with mustard.)
However, it is exceedingly ironic that the article just as easily could have been written regarding JW's who consider leaving or do leave the Witness "fold". Maybe I was an Old Colony Mennonite all those fun-filled years...